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 Magick
SnaGGe
post Feb 12 2010, 02:45 PM
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Okey, dont get me wrong but i've been thinking about this whole magick thing, first of all im not sayin if its possible i want to do it cause its fun, more like is those things really possible in our life? I mean if you go searching some about the subject you find tons so i guess there must be something true about it somewhere in the ages but i don't really know, my question is, is it really possible to do things physically with magick or is it just to find your inner self and believe in stuff(Like luck spells etc.) and that sort or is it really possible to do something you feel or see or even can touch without imagine it? guess i will make some people pissed with a question like this but i would like to know. Thanks anyway.

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VitalWinds
post Feb 12 2010, 07:43 PM
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Yes, it is possible. I have manifested electromagnetic fields and heat. I have also on occasion manipulated wind. It takes a good amount of time and concentration to affect the world around us, but it can be done. You do, however, have to imagine it. You have to imagine it, and will it to be at the same time, but when accomplished others will be able to feel/see it.


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Aphrodite
post Feb 12 2010, 08:56 PM
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*sigh* You come to an occult forum asking if magick is possible, which is equivalent of me going on a Christian forum and asking skeptical questions about God. Go out and explore and experience for yourself. Would it make a difference if I said I could levitate and create fire balls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Anyways to answer your question, yes, using imagination and visualization via focused energy can manifest your concentrated desire and/or connect you to other “planes of existence”. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

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Petrus
post Feb 12 2010, 09:27 PM
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This is a guess, but I suspect it depends on what you're trying to do.

Although I've heard of levitation as a concept, I've read very few accounts of people actually managing to do it. So while I can't logically say that it's impossible, I will say that at least certain laws of Newtonian physics do seem to be applied fairly heavily and consistently.

I feel that one of the major laws in existence, is the concept that the physical universe has to behave in such a way that, while magick can be possible, Richard Dawkins still has to be able to believe that he's right. So normally, I think that probably the sorts of results you'll get, are things which can be seen to be synchronistic or defy statistical odds, on a subtle level, but not to a point where an atheist wouldn't be able to look at the scenario, and at least semi-plausibly say that magick doesn't exist. There's a related theory in quantum physics these days, which suggests that the results of at least some experiments, may be influenced by the intentions/desires of the operator, which sounds suspiciously like magick to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As one example, I regularly summon a servitor which Phil Hine wrote about, called GOFLOWOLFOG, to help reduce my waiting time when I'm standing in supermarket queues. This servitor was created for the purpose of breaking up queues and getting them moving, hence his name.

Does the servitor work? It does seem according to my own subjective observation, that people can start moving more quickly, and cashier people can start scanning items more quickly, after the servitor has been called, and this also seems consistent. However, it's still not something where Richard Dawkins, if I told him about that, wouldn't be able to look at the entire idea and entirely plausibly say that it was rubbish.


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Psyche
post Feb 12 2010, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(SnaGGe @ Feb 12 2010, 03:45 PM) *

Okey, dont get me wrong but i've been thinking about this whole magick thing, first of all im not sayin if its possible i want to do it cause its fun, more like is those things really possible in our life? I mean if you go searching some about the subject you find tons so i guess there must be something true about it somewhere in the ages but i don't really know, my question is, is it really possible to do things physically with magick or is it just to find your inner self and believe in stuff(Like luck spells etc.) and that sort or is it really possible to do something you feel or see or even can touch without imagine it? guess i will make some people pissed with a question like this but i would like to know. Thanks anyway.


I think you're misunderstanding what magick is about. That's ok, many "magic(k)ians" make the same mistake.

Aleister Crowley gave the simplest definition of magick when he said: “Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.” One example he gave was opening a door, another was penning a letter.

Here's an extract from a response I made to Deo (of the podcast Deo's Shadow) in response to his critique of magick:

QUOTE
...perhaps the first letter in Magick Without Tears will further help clarify (you can find it on Hermetic.com here). Crowley goes into greater depth in a letter abundant with straightforward real-world examples of what magick “is” and how it works.

An illuminating extract:
Magick is the Science of understanding oneself and one’s conditions. It is the Art of applying that understanding in action.


In short, magick living in the world and working to enact your will upon it. It requires great discipline and a firm commitment to deepening one's self-knowledge.

No, you can't shoot fireballs (a favourite example for many), nor levitate, nor change your math teacher into a newt. But you can change your world.

Note: Edited to correct formatting errors. I keep forgetting that this BB uses weird code.

This post has been edited by Psyche: Feb 12 2010, 11:26 PM


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NetHermit
post May 20 2010, 01:11 AM
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Just read up through history and read up on magick and find your own truth.

This post has been edited by NetHermit: May 20 2010, 01:14 AM


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Animal Shaman
post May 20 2010, 09:09 AM
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If your looking for something similar to the movies like Harry Potter. It doesn't work that way. As someone said effects are subtle and its results not immediate. Occasionally one might witness something supernatural, like candle floating, or a materialization of a spirit summoned during a ritual or ceremony, but those phenomenons are extremely rare.


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Barnard
post Jul 1 2010, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE(Aphrodite @ Feb 12 2010, 10:56 PM) *

*sigh* You come to an occult forum asking if magick is possible, which is equivalent of me going on a Christian forum and asking skeptical questions about God. Go out and explore and experience for yourself. Would it make a difference if I said I could levitate and create fire balls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Anyways to answer your question, yes, using imagination and visualization via focused energy can manifest your concentrated desire and/or connect you to other “planes of existence”. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)


Do you know anything about healing physical wounds. This along with telekinesis is my highest priority. My friend's severe injuries are making her feel suicidal! I know I have the power within me, I just got to figure out how to harness it.

Also, would it help to close my eyes during the meditation while imagining what I want to happen? This would make sense as what you actually see can distract your imaginatation as to what you want to see.


This post has been edited by Barnard: Jul 1 2010, 04:44 PM


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Vilhjalmr
post Jul 1 2010, 09:53 PM
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OP - in a word, yes it is, but how you go about it can vary immensely. I'll write up a detailed post in a sec. But first...

QUOTE(Aphrodite @ Feb 12 2010, 09:56 PM) *

*sigh* You come to an occult forum asking if magick is possible, which is equivalent of me going on a Christian forum and asking skeptical questions about God. Go out and explore and experience for yourself. Would it make a difference if I said I could levitate and create fire balls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Yes, it would. I generally ignore the words of those who don't say they can do these things, because then I know my quest for physical results will not be found in their system of "magic", whatever it might be. But if someone who seemed well-informed, educated, and intelligent told me they had created a fire ball, and provided a training regime that they swear will let me create fire balls too, well, I'm at least interested if not convinced.

He's not asking if magical is possible, only if a specific type of magic is possible. And that seems like a reasonable question to me.

QUOTE(Petrus @ Feb 12 2010, 10:27 PM) *

There's a related theory in quantum physics these days, which suggests that the results of at least some experiments, may be influenced by the intentions/desires of the operator, which sounds suspiciously like magick to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I believe this is a misunderstanding of one of the principles of quantum physics, which states nothing about the intents or desires of the operator, only that attempts to measure what has happened will change the results (because to measure is to affect in some way). Thus, an observer will change the outcome, but only because to observe necessitates interaction between the subject and the observer.

Other than that, I am strongly leaning to your position in everything else.

QUOTE(Psyche @ Feb 13 2010, 12:23 AM) *

Aleister Crowley gave the simplest definition of magick when he said: “Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.” One example he gave was opening a door, another was penning a letter.

That's pretty silly. If he wishes to change the definition of magic to "doing anything at all", that's fine, but that's not what most magicians - as you say yourself - are about.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Jul 1 2010, 10:11 PM


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Vilhjalmr
post Jul 1 2010, 10:06 PM
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Okay, now on the original poster's question.

1.) There's nothing wrong about wanting to do it because it's fun. That's one of the best reasons, in my opinion.

2.) I have spent a long time looking for magical systems that promise actual, physical, tangible, undeniable results. Petrus might be right when he posits that magic only operates in a more subtle way, but many people think otherwise. Here's a quick rundown of the people I know who claim physical effect from magic.

a.) Imperial Arts, a member of this forum, says (in a nutshell) that if you faithfully follow every instruction given in the Ars Goetia (a medieval grimoire), from obtaining a lionskin to casting the sigils of the demons in the appropriate metal. This is a lot of work, but Imperial Arts has gone to great lengths to carefully chronicle nearly every aspect of his practice, so if you want a comprehensive program to follow and don't mind putting in a lot of time and money, this might be a good choice. Ultimately, it will probably be the one I chose.

b.) Franz Bardon (and Prophecy): Bardon wrote an excellent work called Initiation Into Hermetics, which is basically a step-by-step guide to obtaining powers as varied as summoning elementals to controlling a candle flame with your mind. Prophecy is a member of the Veritas Society forums, and he's written a less lengthy companion guide based on Initiation Into Hermetics. Both of these works promise tangible results. I am wavering myself between following Initiation Into Hermetics or trying Goetic magic.

c.) Kobok's Dynamic Psi: another member of Veritas, Kobok is adamant about rigorously controlled experimental psionics. He claims you can learn, through practice, to do things like move quarters, pencils, and even larger objects with your mind. He has written several guides to this effect.

d.) PsiPog: PsiPog is a site/community dedicated to psionics. They promise some pretty incredible things from psionic practice, but I personally have never managed anything from their guides, and others have told me they similarly failed. Combined with the grandiose claims they make, I'm not so sure about PsiPog, but it does have lots of information to check out, so it's worth a look.

e.) Tomekeeper's Library of Knowledge: Tomekeeper has classified different magical practices and written brief guides on each one. He too makes some extraordinary claims about the power to be found in magic. I found his work very interesting, but unsatisfyingly vague. In addition, I posted on his forums long ago and asked if any of the members had achieved the incredible feats promised, and they all basically said "nope." But again, there's a lot of stuff there, so stop by and take a look.

If you would like any of the works mentioned here or links to any site, just let me know.


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Dulcea
post Jul 5 2010, 02:27 AM
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has anyone noticed that it seems like the original poster never came back? . . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dots.gif)


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Vilhjalmr
post Jul 5 2010, 04:05 PM
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Yes.

All too common, I'm afraid.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Jul 5 2010, 04:05 PM


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