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 Modern Lhp Practicianers
gmcbroom
post Feb 7 2007, 07:27 PM
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Are there any modern (as in still living) world renowned LHP practitioners? I like what Phil Hine is for Chaos Magick are there any for the LHP?

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bym
post Feb 7 2007, 07:35 PM
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Michael Bertiaux, Monastery of the Seven Rays....I do believe that he considers himself LHP...I could be wrong. He is the founder of this splinter of the OTO... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Enochian
post Feb 8 2007, 07:19 PM
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Ok he is a lucefarian and he practices remote viewing, not sure if hes a mage or not but hes definatly lhp. Aaron Donahue


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gmcbroom
post Feb 9 2007, 09:13 AM
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Interesting. So there isn't many public ones. I suppose that would be because of the general publics eschewd view of the LHP.

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DarK
post Feb 12 2007, 11:24 PM
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The LHP itself is not as illustrious in the modern occult, not was it ever really renounced.

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Wezzard
post Mar 28 2007, 06:54 PM
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I quite like Ford's (Luciferian Witchcraft) definition of the difference between Right and Left. Right leads to dissolution, merging with the One, and this is seen as something desirable, whereas Left leads to higher forms of Individuality, something considered wholly selfish and therefore negative. I tried the former, and to be honest what ultimately amounts to oblivion and denial of the self is not very appetising at all, nor is it of any use to a living being. I mean, what point is there in coming into being in order to pursue achieving non-being?

Ultimately I think it's a matter of taste.

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Aleph
post Apr 14 2007, 08:13 PM
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I agree with the idea that the stigma attached to the LHP is primarily responsible for the lack of well known practitioners.

Like Wezzard, I tried the RHP (as it were) and found that it didn’t “fit” with me. On a fundamental level, there are certain aspects of the RHP mindset that simply don’t mesh with my own view of things and my own way of performing and exploring the craft.

I also feel that the stigma attached to LHP is responsible for the lack of true magic practitioners. Anyone can sign up on a forum and say that they’ve performed real magic, but how many people on this forum have truly accomplished even the most basic of magical acts? My guess is very few.

I believe one of the reasons for this is the incompatibility of true RHP magic with the viewpoint of many would-be practitioners. As a mentor of mine used to say, you can bullshit a woman, but you can’t bullshit the craft. In other words, no matter how hard you try, if your personality/persona/wants/desires don’t fit the RHP profile, you can’t trick yourself or other beings into believing it. As a result, people toil away in the RHP, regardless of the fact that they aren't getting results, because they don't think LHP is <insert random excuse>, or they've heard that LHP is <insert random dire warning>.


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bym
post Apr 15 2007, 05:09 AM
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Greetings!
I'm not sure that I agree with you Aleph. It has been my experience while here on this Forum to encounter many who flock to the LHP as opposed to RHP. Younger people tend toward this as they are still in a formative aspect in their lives (development of self, ego, etc.) which leads them to find themselves delving into practices that accentuate solidification. They are ever mindful of their sexuality and the need to accumulate. After all, romanticization of such things as Vampirism etc. is very moderne... But I also find that this way of thinking about LHP/RHP very misleading. It's like dropping a gray filter over the 'problem' and not recognizing that Magic knows no limitations. We develop throughout our lives as intellects. It is an oversimplification (...LOL, speaking of oversimplifications!...) to try to categorize ones life (path) by subgrouping under these titles...IMHO! As I've gotten (inevitably) older I find that certain material things are no longer important, my thoughts run more to 'WHAT'S NEXT?' and that my views of dispercion into godhead become more pronounced. You will find that ANY path that finds you so totally immersed as to not see some merit in the other aspects of thought as to be ultimately destructive. The trancendence of ego doesn't necesarily mean RHP nor does sex magic consign you to LHP. When we worship at the Altars of Excess we are courting the stagnation of ourselves and it is that very stagnation that leads to the falling into the abyss.
People on either path fail in their magic because of a host of reasons...one is laziness and laxity of intention! "do you know of any way that I can have a successful evocation of Umpity-Squat without the use of candles...books...incense...study...meditation...any effort at all...including PATIENCE...???" "why doesn't my spellcasting lead to anything?" the lists are legion. I like this one..."would you please tell me in step by step detail how to make a servitor?" Dear Gods! Then, if you actually acquiesse to this plea you will hear "...but it is inconvenient for me to do [this] or [that], are there any substitutes for doing those things?" Aaaargh! Here, on an occult Forum, on the Internet, they don't know how to research something...? *sigh* I've spent over fourty years studying the subject and am under the distinct impression that I know less than I did at my inception! I still waffle back and forth between aspects of LHP and RHP, not willing to become fixed in that 'paradigm' (gods, I hate that word!) So concludes a rant (I apologize) within a decent discussion of LHP and RHP. I hope that my misarticulations haven't muddied the waters and/or missed the mark? Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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Aleph
post Apr 15 2007, 10:48 AM
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That’s a well thought out post, bym. I suppose I wasn’t overly precise or descriptive in my first post. So, I’ll try to explain my viewpoint a bit more clearly.

I, too, think it’s inaccurate to label someone’s body of work and/or magical goals as simply RHP or LHP. Obviously, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If there ever is someone that is wholly on one side or the other, then we’re dealing with an angel or a demon.

When I say LHP/RHP I mean that the majority of one’s work falls into one of these categories. To me, it’s the same as labeling someone “selfish” or “selfless” (or, with the stigma attached to LHP, “bad” or “good”). No one is always one thing or the other. We’re constantly wavering between one side and the other, wandering from one end of the spectrum to the other, as needed.

I agree with what some others have said – that RHP/LHP is really just a way to vaguely label someone’s ethics and goals when performing magic; the key word being “vaguely”. The path you subscribe to is largely independent of what type of magic you are performing.

I can see your point about younger would-be practitioners flocking to the ideals generally associated with the LHP. However, in my opinion, there’s a difference between these masses that would try to summon up riches for themselves or magically seduce the blonde in their science class and those that are truly seeking to learn and/or perform something.

Anyhow, I just feel that, over the years, the prominent members of the magical society have done quite a bit to discourage exploration of the LHP. As a result, it takes more effort to tread that direction – even if it’s only temporary. So, in addition to the stigma attached, you’ve got less material available to read and ponder.

I whole-heartedly agree with your summation of the “I want to do magic without all the work” mindset of a lot of the newcomers to the craft. I wonder if this is a relatively new phenomenon or if this has always been the case to a certain degree. I’m guessing the Internet is to blame for at least some of the issue.


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redbreast
post Apr 15 2007, 02:08 PM
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Yes, interesting points being put forward here.

I think also a lot of youngsters being attracted to the LHP is sparked initially by fashion.
The popularity of goth/metal/idustrial/thrash subcultures and music. Admittedly it's also sparking a lot of pretenders and dabblers; but I think a few are turning out serious.

In my case I was actually a [more or less] practising Catholic in my mid-teens, but broke away and got into metal, and stuff like Black Sabbath. Their lyrics I found atmospheric, and I began to speculate as to whether the magic they wrote about could have some truth in it. I was looking for, I guess, a spirituality that didn't frown on my strong sex drive, and a bit of power over my own life.

I encountered eventually Wicca, found it not for me, and went through stages of dabbling in various traditions, until now when I guess I'm a bit of everything, and value the essence in most paths. I've even tried the La Veyan Satanic Bible rites, which are fascinating and useful in their own way. There's little I wouldn't do if necessary, I'm not anti- Christian nor anti-Muslim either, they too have useful knowledge that I think I've been silly to reject in the past. What I don't like is the politics of things, not the magical essence.

I found I couldn't be completely harmless, RHP and passive, when I was having to deal with real jerks trying to harm me for nothing, and use their position to bully people. [I came from a rough and difficult town.] I truly think sometimes, in certain situations, an occultist needs the dark side, and needs on occasion to defend himself and/or bring justice that the Law may fail to. None of my curses have resulted in as strong an effect as I'd have liked, though. I know there is stronger knowledge out there than I've used but it's often kept secret. Nevertheless I think I'd be in a worse way without having used them.

This forum is a bit out of the way, it seems; we'd get more people if it was better known. I only happened upon it from another site, and since it seems serious without too much flaming, I joined.

What do you think, should this forum have more exposure?

This post has been edited by redbreast: Apr 15 2007, 02:17 PM

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bym
post Apr 15 2007, 03:00 PM
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Greetings!
As far as more exposure...my 'employer' would love to see this Forum get more members! LOL! As far as I go...what's the hurry? When things get too big they become more difficult to maintain. The SPAM here is outrageous as it is...no more, thanks! (this is not directed at anyone here in this thread...LOL!)

To Aleph: Ahhh! I see what you are saying now. Thanks for clarifying that. Perhaps we are falling prey to societal outlook(s). Of course we all know that SEX is a BAD thing and that no good ever came from using it in anything except to achieve a new meat puppet...*disgust* LHP stuff has got alot of bad press. then, of course, anyone who is different than yourself is the other guy and all that pertains to them is bad. Their king is a dictator whilst ours is a ruler! Aaaargh! My grass is greener than your grass! All of us know that LHP is Black Magic........and I'm Father Christmas! LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)

This post has been edited by bym: Apr 16 2007, 08:26 PM


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redbreast
post Apr 16 2007, 06:48 PM
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Okay, so..

What is LHP spirituality?
Is there a spirituality in S&M, for example?
what is it that the average occultist would say is LHP?

Personally I think there is a spirituality in S&M, but it's not easy to define.

I don't even do such things anymore since being married, [Chance woulda been a fine thing even when single!]
but nor do I think it's necessarily deplorable. I've heard that to some people, being sexually beaten is [to them]
akin to experiencing spiritual joys and ecstasies not dissimilar to the saints of the Middle Ages.

Who are we to judge?

Could they have some truth in their statements?
Methinks they could.

Again, not that I'm anti- any religion at all, but the human mind is a very odd thing.

Methinks the LHP will have a lot more to say for itself before it's done.

This post has been edited by redbreast: Apr 16 2007, 07:07 PM

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redbreast
post Apr 16 2007, 06:57 PM
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Yes, I'd also agree with the others' statements that the LHP is defined not by just what tradition/method one uses, but by the demonstration of one's intention.

This post has been edited by redbreast: Apr 16 2007, 07:11 PM

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redbreast
post Apr 16 2007, 07:08 PM
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By the way, does anyone here ever purchase from Finbarr Publishing?

I'm certainly NOT saying that all they publish is okay by me!
But what they DO publish, is no-nonsense manuals of,
[If you ask me] the LHP.


Personally I applaud them, their books have done me nothing but good.

No, this is NOT a plug!

Some books/pamphlets they print are also GROSSLY misleading;
but it's up to the purchaser to sort the wheat from the dross;
Methinks you know this.

Take care with what you try, folks.

This post has been edited by redbreast: Apr 16 2007, 07:19 PM

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bym
post Apr 16 2007, 08:25 PM
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Absolutely!
btw, beatings, flagellation, etc. are known to increase the hystamine levels in the blood...something that will help produce a euphoric rush, visions, etc. Psycho-chemicals produced by the body when it (the body) is placed under a variety of forms of stress are time honored methods to facilitate a 'spiritual' experience!

IMHO, I find that any 'spirituality' experienced is extremely subjective. You may all participate in whatever ritual you'd like but, in the end, your spiritual experience will be yours and yours alone. You may have similarities but they are as distinct as the individuals experiencing them...telepathic links not included...

I'm not familiar with Finbarr Press....I'll check them out next...Thanks for the lead! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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redbreast
post Apr 17 2007, 12:36 AM
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Yes, of course, you're right there.

By the way, concerning Finbarr, if you want to know what to avoid, PM me. Only one or two publications of theirs I've found to be actually dangerous, but I'm probably best telling people in private for legal reasons.

In fact my original Wiccan coven kept a scourge that the High Priestess used on occasion {Not on me} but I think it was actually more her own sexual kinks and explaining it as spiritually necessary. She did a whole lot of that, actually, justifying things that suited her own foibles as part of the coven's "rules"; and even at 22 I knew more practical magick than she did! In the end it turned out she was only ever interested in me as a member because she wanted a young guy to screw. The moment I said I wasn't happy about being her sex toy, she made excuses as to why I should leave etc.

But never mind, that's another issue, and sorry to have hijacked this thread a bit! I was a bit [very] drunk last night!

To get it back on track, I think a lot of modern people who would have been LHP technically, are now into Chaos Magick.
I think most Chaoists that I've heard of, you could describe as essentially LHP. I don't use many of the methods they've invented to reach gnosis/the Void, but I could, in some ways, be described as a Chaos Magick practitioner, especially when writes like Pete Carroll state one should accept no absolutes, and take the essence from any path/religion as it suits your purposes.

What do you think? Are the most serious modern LHP people now classifiable as Chaoists?

This post has been edited by redbreast: Apr 17 2007, 12:42 AM

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DarkGoddess
post Apr 20 2007, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE
What is LHP spirituality?
Is there a spirituality in S&M, for example?


QUOTE
Absolutely!
btw, beatings, flagellation, etc. are known to increase the hystamine levels in the blood...something that will help produce a euphoric rush, visions, etc. Psycho-chemicals produced by the body when it (the body) is placed under a variety of forms of stress are time honored methods to facilitate a 'spiritual' experience!


QUOTE
In fact my original Wiccan coven kept a scourge that the High Priestess used on occasion {Not on me} but I think it was actually more her own sexual kinks and explaining it as spiritually necessary. She did a whole lot of that, actually, justifying things that suited her own foibles as part of the coven's "rules"; and even at 22 I knew more practical magick than she did! In the end it turned out she was only ever interested in me as a member because she wanted a young guy to screw. The moment I said I wasn't happy about being her sex toy, she made excuses as to why I should leave etc.


bym is quite right. Ritual flagellation can be very helpful. It isn't always a sexual thing, or a pain thing. Although pain does help flood the body with endorphins (natural painkillers), and generally break your mind's bond with "reality" and make you more open to alternate perceptions. However, even a rythmic flogging with a horsehair or deer hide flogger (which you really can't cause much pain with, no matter how hard you swing) is very useful. It provides a rythmic sound, and you feel a pulse from each impact going through your body. It helps one meditate and enter into trances by giving something to focus on, providing both aural and tactile inputs. If there's a lot of interest, I can write a little more on this.

Sounds like you (redbreast) ran into one of the type of people I despise, who use their spirituality as some sort of way to build a cult of themselves, and to serve base desires and impulses, and are wholly lacking in any real knowledge or spirituality. I see this a lot in professing wiccans. I guess it's a "safe" path, where mediocrity is the norm. Maybe I'm being too hard on them. But I doubt it.

Personally, I don't bother with LHP/RHP labels to my path. It is what it is, although most would call it very left-hand due to the methods involved and some fo the results. But while there are terrible and horrific visions I see and experiences I endure, there is also much beauty and reward involved. C'est la vie!


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To these I turn, in these I trust;
Brother Lead and Sister Steel.
To his blind power I make appeal;
I guard her beauty clean from rust.

He spins and burns and loves the air,
And splits a skull to win my praise;
But up the nobly marching days
She glitters naked, cold and fair.

Sweet Sister, grant your soldier this;
That in good fury he may feel
The body where he sets his heel
Quail from your downward darting kiss.

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Venger_Satanis
post Apr 24 2007, 12:53 PM
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i don't care which path you follow... celebrity magicians are hard to come by. extremes provoke reactions which then provide recognition. so who are the most extreme sorcerers around?

to some degree i believe that all magic is black magic and that "white" or right hand path magicians are just confused or hypocritical. it's way more than personal taste though. joining the universe or struggling against it... you've got two choices there. two opposite sides.

Ia Ia,


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Frater526
post Jun 23 2007, 03:16 PM
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93!

What about Michael Aquino or the Schrecks (Nikolas and Zeena Schreck (born Zeena LaVey btw, their demons of the flesh is a great book)? Sethianism is definitely LHP although I do not care about these labels cause as a human/god I can use both hands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) and there are really no colors or directions, "the word of sin is restriction" Liber Al vel Legis.

I'd include Stephen Flowers aka Edred Thorson, too. And partly Frater U.D. (originally VD but that name was not so good for the english speaking market (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ).

And people like Kenneth Grant (still alive the old guy, tough cookie that man) who cross the lines between RHP and LHP.

93-93/93
526

This post has been edited by Frater526: Jun 23 2007, 03:18 PM


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Jesse Miller
post Nov 25 2007, 12:46 AM
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Do a search on Michael Ford.. or go to www.Lulu.com
Search for his name there and see the books he wrote. Luciferian witchcraft is a VERY informative book. It also has a section on persian sorcery and the goetia.

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Neshamah
post Jul 23 2008, 12:21 PM
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I really like Ford's Liber HVHI, which is a study of the Qliphoth and the Nightside Tree (among other things). I very much dislike anything by LaVey and Aquino. IMHO, they are charlatans playing on the rebellious nature of some people. I do believe that some people are "wired differently" than the norm and that they need some of the S&M present in a few LHP "teachings" in order to be truly "satisfied." But, this gets us into the whole nature vs. nurture thing as well as brain chemistry and the like -- subjects better left for another thread.



I've been involved in the Kabbalah's "Sitra Achra" for several years and there are a few books that are helpful in understanding the Left Side of the ToL. If anyone is interested in pursuing this particular LHP they can contact me via PM.



Peace.


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Neshamah
post Aug 7 2008, 07:55 PM
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I'd like to add that Kenneth Grant's works have helped me a great deal in my OWN path (I like to think of it as a Middle Path, of sorts). The Nightside of Eden and Outside the Circles of Time were both LIFE-CHANGING books for me.

Some of you will ask "How?"

To which I can only answer, "Read them and discover for yourself."

I've seen many reviews that call both books the ravings of a madman. Again, I offer the reviewers the advice, "Read them and discover for yourself."

Somewhere between the LHP and RHP.

Peace,

Neshamah


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Firephoenix
post Apr 20 2009, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE(Wezzard @ Mar 28 2007, 07:54 PM) *

I quite like Ford's (Luciferian Witchcraft) definition of the difference between Right and Left. Right leads to dissolution, merging with the One, and this is seen as something desirable, whereas Left leads to higher forms of Individuality, something considered wholly selfish and therefore negative. I tried the former, and to be honest what ultimately amounts to oblivion and denial of the self is not very appetising at all, nor is it of any use to a living being. I mean, what point is there in coming into being in order to pursue achieving non-being?

Ultimately I think it's a matter of taste.


I have no problem being selfish. Seriously, do people know what they've signed up for? Who could possibly "want" to cease to exist? That is "true" death. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

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Vilhjalmr
post Apr 21 2009, 02:53 AM
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QUOTE(Firephoenix @ Apr 20 2009, 11:18 AM) *

I have no problem being selfish. Seriously, do people know what they've signed up for? Who could possibly "want" to cease to exist? That is "true" death. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)

In most "RHP" systems, cessation of individual existence isn't equivalent to death - it's a different type of" better" existence.

That said, I don't actively want to die; but neither would I mind dying. In some ways, it would be a relief - to be beyond the power of God or man. It is the final blessing.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Apr 21 2009, 02:54 AM


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Wezzard
post Apr 21 2009, 10:29 AM
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This question of just exactly whathe "self" is needs to be drummed out abit more.
The LHP defines the Self, seemingly, as the total aggregates which may accumulate themselves to the psyche during the process of Individuation=Incarnation. The Lhp identifies these 'me-mes' as "self" thereby incuring an escalating feedback-loop on itself degenerative in nature. The Lhp seeks an insulation from the Universe which perpetuates a sense of Duality(Dyad) & denies Compassion ultimately. Nursing the Lower-selves so they may grow into biguys is the name of Their game.

The RHP doesn't necessitate the absolute destruction of the HigherSelf as it's being misunderstood. RHP really seeks to banish the illusion these false selves bestow against the TrueSelf. These false 'Ids' are what dissolute @ every physical death with accompanying agony. Anything & everything causing attachment to Assiah is what RHP truly seeks to Banish. Agape is the name of the game.

hate to go gr.2, but StarWars really did hit this outta the park !
When the fire of the Force falls from Heaven do we bend as 1 or break in 2

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Ankhhape
post Apr 21 2009, 06:00 PM
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Greetings everyone,


In my understandings The Fall represents mankind's descentl into materialism. This Fall shields us from the spiritual world and opens an Abyss between Man and the Divine. The Right Hand Path of traditional Qabalah aims to restore the original harmonic relation between man and the Divine.

The Left Hand Path fulfills and deepens the Fall. The Dark Adept continues the Fall from the Abrahamic God to reach individual divinity.
The reason behind the Fall is often described as being hubris, man's search for knowledge and forces that originally were not meant for him to acquire. The Left Hand Path leads to a second birth, a spiritual rebirth as a god.

The original Tree of Life did not contain the material world, instead the non-Sephira Daath existed., united by paths with Kether (above), Chokmah, Binah, Geburah and Tiphareth (below).

Lucifer-Daath, the original Serpent, represents the divine force of creation that is able to carry out the idea of creation.
Lucifer-Daath sinks down to man's level and awakens the power of creation and the sexual energy in man. Thus, man can reach the knowledge which was previously only accessible to God.

The adepts of the Left Hand Path glorify the Fall and allow the destruction to be fulfilled. Leading away from the Tree of Life and further into the Tree of Knowledge.


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Kheper-i kheper kheperu kheper-kuie
em kheperu en Khepri kheper em Sep Tepy

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esoterica
post Apr 22 2009, 07:15 AM
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superb post, ankhhape


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Hermetic668
post Jul 25 2009, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE(gmcbroom @ Feb 7 2007, 08:27 PM) *

Are there any modern (as in still living) world renowned LHP practitioners? I like what Phil Hine is for Chaos Magick are there any for the LHP?


I suspect there are a few, but they lay low for practical reasons - desire for privacy, avoidance of hassle, and sometimes just prosaic legalities.

Suppose, just suppose, someone on the LHP was able to use the Goetia to evoke and command "demons" to kill people, whether for vengence or money or some other reason.. And they did this publically. There are two basic possibilities that result from this: 1) they demonstrate they are truthful, and end up in the slammer for murder; or 2) they are labeled cranks and crackpots and probably sued for fraud of one sort or another.

By extention, it's not outside the realm of possibility that one could practice the LHP to influene the minds of others to one's own gain, and in publically demonstrating this do get hit on civil rights charges, fraud, larceny, etc.

And there's always the thing about sharing what you know - someone else could use it to, and then you have a lot of competition you didn't have before.

Sometimes it's just better to do and remain silent.

Best,
Hermetic668


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Fear not any man; fear not thineself; remember that fear is failure and the forerunner of failure. Be thou therefore without fear, for in the heart of the coward virtue abideth not.

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Kath
post Jun 13 2010, 03:50 PM
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Frankly, I think that in our current age, the internet is as valid a place as any for an occultist to be 'renowned'. The vast majority of occult discourse actually occurs online these days.
though it would certainly help if they were a published author as well.


also, i would not say that in being a 'chaoist' that one cannot simultaneously be "LHP", so i disagree with the idea that LHPers became chaoists and don't count as LHPers anymore.


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esoterica
post Jun 14 2010, 11:26 AM
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i am an occultist, and a published author, but i'd eat whoever said i was 'renowned' - you can easily hide your identity on the internet, and i know many authors that do - you get a following that haunts you to be something other than yourself - those that do not hide are selling something and deserve caution

wait lol i'm renown for my inane ramblings!

This post has been edited by esoterica: Jun 14 2010, 11:28 AM


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