Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
 Cant Spill Tht Seed! For One Moon!, how
Frater Soutaw
post Apr 6 2007, 01:03 PM
Post #1


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 10
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 1 pts




I was planning to walk the Nanna Gate I made it like 3 days before I spilt my seed I couldn't help it... how do you keep your mind off of it? I can get my wife to stay off me ... but there is so much eye candy around I may need to tie my hands behind my back for the length of 1 moon? any suggestions?.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post


Nosotro Tehuti
post Apr 6 2007, 02:37 PM
Post #2


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 148
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Wilkes Barre PA
Reputation: 14 pts




Greetings,

When it says in the book for one not to spill thy seed in preparation for walking, it also includes a 'loophole'. When it speaks of the priest being allowed to 'worship/sacriice to Inanna, that means sacred masturbation, or coupling with a women Inanna accepts. (i'm sure your wife would qualify as you are married).
So during the purification of the moon, it is fine to spill your seed so long as it is done in a ritualistic setting in the Great Goddess Inanna's name.
Peace


--------------------


ILAT ENKI, IMHAS INA LIBBU INE SU'ATI AMELNAKRU MANNU EMU SHU GUSHTUKUL ELI INA DINGIR!

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Vagrant Dreamer
post Apr 6 2007, 05:57 PM
Post #3


Practicus
Group Icon
Posts: 1,184
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Reputation: 51 pts




Granted there is a loophole there, and it's become a popular one, however there is a lot to be gained by abstaining.

My method is to simply meditate any time that I have some irresistable urge to get off. Of course, I don't live with a spouse, but you could also try satisfying her in some fashion and then meditating afterwards. The energy you have from your spouse will add something I can't really describe to the meditation, and after the requisite 13 days, the gatewalking experience will be far more intense. The first time I tried walking the nanna gate, I had tried the sacred masturbation approach, but my experience as peripheral and largely, I believe, superficial. Second time I did it straight and narrow - an incredibly intense, energetic experience that blew my mind and was far beyond what I expected of it given my first weak attempt.

It's said that one may "worship at the temple of inanna, so long as he does not lose his essence" in my opinion this is speaking of losing one's energy to sex. While some have pointed out that sacred sex is a return of energy, this is actually a very difficult practice to partake of on one's own - it requires a partner, for one thing, who is actively participating; more than this, it also requires a consciousness of the experience of sex that without some cultivation, is nearly impossible for a 'beginner' to grasp and apply. It's not as simple as just praying while you have sex.

Naturally there are a thousand different paths, but honestly if you don't follow the instructions as a basis for comparison, it's impossible to know whether one method is effective or not. I would say for the first gate, follow the instructions to the letter. Make adjustments after that and if the experience is lacking, obviously you need to stick to the letter. If it works out for you, then you'll know for sure you're not missing out.

I don't think that really applies for anyone who's already developed their astral body sufficiently - the simplest gatewalking can be done just by projecting to the void, constructing the gate, and going through it. Outside of time and space none of the sidereal timing matters.

that my two cents.

peace


--------------------
The world is complicated - that which makes it up is elegantly simplistic, but infinitely versatile.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

esoterica
post Apr 7 2007, 08:48 AM
Post #4


left 30 aug 2010
Group Icon
Posts: 810
Age: N/A
Gender: Female
Reputation: 10 pts




herbs can be used most easily to divert the sex urge, produce erectile disfunction, or contain ejaculation - worst i ever saw was cayenne pepper rubbed on the head of the penis, but there are many other numbing agents besides hot pepper - also if you are circumcised place a spot of wax over the sex nerve where it is exposed

you're wife dosen't know of your attempt? it may be a requirement, but you walk a fine line there (hope she doesn't think you are cheating!)- you would have a very strong source of support and perhaps even of power should you let it slip - and the waiting even makes it better, just don't look at her if she drops an orange in the grocery store cause the abstnance will have been for nothing and you can't go back to the grocery store again! (sorry - an old old joke)

i wonder if innana likes tantric sex performed in her name?

es
oh sweet void! you are neither here nor there, fair nor foul, but teeming with life and mystery!!!


--------------------
IPB Image

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Penny_Lane
post Apr 8 2007, 06:30 AM
Post #5


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 65
Age: N/A
Gender: Female
Reputation: none




QUOTE(esoterica @ Apr 7 2007, 02:48 PM) *
i wonder if innana likes tantric sex performed in her name?

I can say from experience that She most certainly does (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even partial sex (not leading to intercourse) can work if other options are not available.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

bym
post Apr 8 2007, 07:18 AM
Post #6


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




Greetings!
Well, at my age it is a moot point! But....FOLLOW the RULES! Loopholes gain you nothing! If you can't rein it in for the space of a month, then so much for your will power! Which, I believe, is part of being a Mage? There are advanced scenarios that use tantric sex as an avenue to enlightenment...but we're talking about something else here! Listen to Vagrant Dreamer, the experience will be far more intense and will benefit you more on any number of levels!

I actually gave up certain magical practices for a whole decade once because of a new partner and love. I don't regret it! Priorities being what they are. Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

nebo82
post Apr 8 2007, 09:13 AM
Post #7


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 39
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New England
Reputation: 2 pts




QUOTE(Frater Soutaw @ Apr 6 2007, 03:03 PM) *
I was planning to walk the Nanna Gate I made it like 3 days before I spilt my seed I couldn't help it... how do you keep your mind off of it? I can get my wife to stay off me ... but there is so much eye candy around I may need to tie my hands behind my back for the length of 1 moon? any suggestions?.



Greetings

In my opinion "spill" all you want but as a sex magic ritual as an offering to "thy Goddess"excipt the very last 7 days (and when I can do so it's in the temple on a mat{temorests are the best} set up in a circle) .
But the biggist problem with that is finding a partner that realy respects this kinda thing.
Lot of posers out there too many women think magic ,wiccanism neo paganisn is some kinda fashion statement .

Nebo

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Nosotro Tehuti
post Apr 8 2007, 11:00 AM
Post #8


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 148
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Wilkes Barre PA
Reputation: 14 pts




Greetings,

BYM, you are correct in that one should follow the rules of the system. When i described that bit of the text as a 'loophole' i believe i was in error. I should have instead described it as an 'alternative method'. Or even rather as part of the 'blind' in that section of the book.
In the Necronomicon system, having ritual sex with Inanna is a way to purify oneself and increase power. If you give of yourself freely to her, she returns that energy ten-fold to you.
What I would advise strongly against, is using ritual sex with Her as an excuse to get off during the moon. Follow one path of purification or the other. If you decide to make a regular sacrifice to the Goddess during the purification of the Moon, she and her power will carry with you into the Working.
That is not to say that abstinence doesn't provide power and intensity as well. I would just not say it is superior to Communion with the Goddess under the same circumstances
Peace,


--------------------


ILAT ENKI, IMHAS INA LIBBU INE SU'ATI AMELNAKRU MANNU EMU SHU GUSHTUKUL ELI INA DINGIR!

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Vagrant Dreamer
post Apr 8 2007, 06:19 PM
Post #9


Practicus
Group Icon
Posts: 1,184
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Reputation: 51 pts




Hmmm... I may be unique in this, or not, but in the past I have experienced two forms of devotional 'sex' with the goddess. One is a gross and, I feel, less effective form of worship which does involve 'spilling the seed' - however, I have had few experiences as well in which there was no physical climax resulting in such a spill, and yet, the same sense of peace and relief follows. This second aspect I discovered during the aforementioned meditation towards abstinence.

I'm not sure how to explain initiating such an experience other than to invoke/evoke the goddess Inanna and, without moving from the posture (lotus posture, for me) or physically stimulating oneself in any way, allow your sexual energy to rise and connect with the goddess, pouring that energy into her image with devotional intent, as a form of energetic sacrifice in a way. For me this naturally leads towards the experience of having an energetic climax. Beyond the invocation and the sacrifice, I don't control the experience, but it's normally the same each time.

This sort of exercise can be done with a partner as well, I believe, but again, it requires a partner who knows how to reciprocate, how to accept energy, and how to work with the energy between the two of you. Gender, I feel, is of no importance - the goddess frequently alternates between 'male' and 'female' archetypes in my interaction with her, though the sensual, feminine energy never becomes masculine and agressive.

I do think that the passage on the matter is a potential blind, a sort of allowance for individuals who, no offense to anyone practicing, aren't dedicated or disciplined enough to follow the protocols. Anyone sufficiently devoted will have no problem with the fasting period, and anyone looking for an 'easy' way to do it, will take the blind at face value. There are many such blinds - apparent contradictions with some meager reasoning behind them - in many old grimoires, and maybe some newer ones if there are any. They appear to offer two methods, one difficult and requiring discipline, another easier 'exception to the rule'. I can only speak for the necronomicon in this regard, but try it both ways and the difference should show itself.

peace


--------------------
The world is complicated - that which makes it up is elegantly simplistic, but infinitely versatile.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Nosotro Tehuti
post Apr 9 2007, 12:55 PM
Post #10


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 148
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Wilkes Barre PA
Reputation: 14 pts




Greetings,

Very nice post Vagrant.
When it comes to the two forms of Inanna worship, gross and 'spiritual', I totally agree. The way I came to understand those duel practices is that the gross/base form of worship is geared to bringing energy into yourself, while the spiritual method is geared more towards giving energy out to the Goddess. I may be wrong on that though.
As for the merits of devotion and discipline.
I think in this case one must define devotion and discipline. You are very correct that it takes a great deal of those qaulities to practice the forms of abstinence leading up to the Walking. However, I feel it also takes devotion and discipline in equal measure to each and every day find the time and patience and solitude to drop oneself into a deep state trance and worship the Goddess.
When dealing with the Necronomicon, I think it presents various methods, each suited to different mentalities and personalities. Personally, I don't like abstinence of any kind. I feel that it goes against the grain of behing human. We are not meant to abstain completely from physical activities, (whether that be food, drink or sexual release) .
That's not to say one should completely give themselves over to those desires, but I don't think they should be denied completely either. As you said of yourself, this may be unique to me. But when I'm going into a gate, I like to feel as human as possible. I want to have my energies at baseline, human and open.
If I've fasted and abstained for the period of purification (which I've done many times in the beginning) I found myself struggling in the gate to connect to what it means to be a fallible, mortal human. Again, maybe it's only me when it comes to that.
I look at in the way some look at pleasure and pain. One means very little without the other.
When I go before the God or Goddess of the Gate, I want to be as human and 'imperfect' (in the sense they can be perfect, we cannot) as possible. So that when they present themselves to my senses and mind, I will much more greatly be able to understand the both micro- and macro- cosmic differences. Thier energy is just that much more alien and influential to me.
I guess it all comes down to the basic differences in who we are, how we feel, and how we interpret the Powers-That-Be.

Peace


--------------------


ILAT ENKI, IMHAS INA LIBBU INE SU'ATI AMELNAKRU MANNU EMU SHU GUSHTUKUL ELI INA DINGIR!

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Vagrant Dreamer
post Apr 9 2007, 06:29 PM
Post #11


Practicus
Group Icon
Posts: 1,184
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Reputation: 51 pts




I can see what you mean, and there's merit to that line of thinking, I believe. However, I think abstinence of any kind serves more than to distance oneself from the 'base' human condition.

Practicing abstinence is practicing control over oneself. It's shifting the center of your consciousness out of the intellect and instinct, and upwards into the higher consciousness. In practicing abstinence, the personality is turned on end by the higher consciousness and the benefits then go beyond just gathering energy - you've made that gross aspect of your being (the psyche and personality considered gross in comparison to the causal spiritual consciousness beyond it) suddenly malleable in it's vulnerability. This is the point at which development of the astral body becomes not only -more- possible, but more effective.

One element of that whole process we usually don't think about is the human condition itself - we are naturally, biologically, hardwired towards retaining a very rigid state of being that changes inside very little. The average individual's first instinct is to preserve the current status, rather than allow any sort of change for either good or bad. It's this element of our condition that works against us in all magick, much less a path specifically designed to evolve the astral body.

By making abstinence a ritual feat, rather than, for instance, the normal course of life for yourself, you prepare yourself for the changes that will occur in your astral body when the process of gatewalking - or any other path with a similar goal - in a way kneading the clay, as it were, to be shaped by the divine or demonic forces one is working with. By turning a blind eye to abstinence, and holding on to 'humanity', you're also holding on to the human condition - not necessarily consciously, but that is what it means, unconsciously, to take that point of view.

Now, that's not to say that the astral body will not be altered by the process regardless - the intensity of the experience and the subsequent personal adjustments to one's being (conquering the tasks revealed after the gatewalking, facing the inner demons brought to light through the power of each gate, etc.) play a distinct role in the transformation. Even if one is abstinent, but pursues the gate half-heartedly or as an unshakable skeptic who -wants- the ritual to fail, the process is nullified anyway, that that is itself another manifestation of the same problem - that as humans we -want- to remain humans, and we do not want to change our existence for either good or bad.

What it comes down to is, do you think it's possible to remain 'human' and see this process through to the ultimate end, which will not be grasped until after death? 'Human' is in many opinions, personally opinions I myself agree with, a biological condition. The substrate which through this biological entity experiences, becomes conscious, etc., is anything but. Is the goodness of mankind an aspect of his humanity, or the divinity which expresses itself through him? Is the evil, for that matter, a human failing, or the expression of Anti-Divine, or for that matter the Misinterpreted divinity, through him?

In any case, the fact remains that humans, while seemingly infinitely adaptable and apparently not stuck on any particular facet of themselves, are at the same time utterly terrified of change, and so we are rigid creatures despite our high evolutionary state (comparably to the majority of other lifeforms on this planet, at least). It's the uniform addiction to tradition, society, cultural history and the past in general, that progress seems non-existent at times, at least for the majority and certainly on the world-scale vs. the individual scale.

So yes, abstinence unbalances the human element in us, and goes against the grain. But, order must be thrust into chaos and disassembled in order to achieve a different configuration. In a way, we have to throw ourselves off balance in the beginning to achieve the deepest changes to who and even what we are. Many systems reflect this idea, and its the sudden and intense change to routine that is the foundation of that practice. And it may be a very necessary element.

This rigidity is insidious and very subtle at times. Even the most chaotic and carefree of us still lead relatively routine lives - waking up at the same time almost every day, going to bed at the same time almost every night, eating a relatively unvaried diet, preferring a particular type of entertainment and media, checking our e-mails and message boards with regularity, and following a general daily ritual by which each element of our lives is, under our noses, arranged meticulously to create the most harmony and the least amount of change from day to day. It's when we consciously decide to transcend those patterns that chaos can wreak some advancement and uncommon experience in our lives. And that is the human condition - order, patterns. We're controlled on a subtle level, influenced I should say, by patterns from the phases of the moon, to the solar winds, to the rays of the planets in the system, gravity, the alternating day and night, and a billion other subtle systems that influence us in almost every aspect of our lives.

Freedom is attained by breaking away from those patterns. Shaking up your own systematic existence in some way, even by introducing other temporary patterns that run counter to the patterns already there.

If you were to look at a year's worth of activity, and chart the moments of indulgence, the moments of natural abstinence, the moments of anger, passion, sexual urges, etc., you'd see that most of it is hardly by choice in the first place. it follows a pattern of fluctuation subject to these various subtle control mechanisms.

By choosing to be as human as possible, your essentially choosing to be at the behest of those systems, rather than released from them. That bondage is counter to the goal of the gatewalking experience.

Of course, it's possible to live in those systems but not by them. To Choose to follow the flow of the subtle world around us rather than rebel against it, and retain the choice to break from them when we want to rather than be compulsively subject to them. But, attaining that balance is a very difficult thing to do, and it's very difficult to tell if one has achieved it or not. It's like an addiction - you want the cigarette, but you choose not to smoke it. Then, later, you want it again and you think, "Well, I might as well, I passed on it earlier." Are you choosing, or succumbing to a compulsion? there's virtually no way to tell.

Abstinence, therefore, is an absolute, an easy way to guarantee that you're in control, not the subtle forces around you. There is not force that will compel abstinence, because as you say, abstinence is unnatural. That's why it's the only way, or one of a short list of ways, to break oneself from the subtle currents of control, and prepare oneself for astral development. Like the cigarette - are you choosing not to abstain for some truly thought out and applied reasoning, or because you'd rather not abstain? Are you worshipping at the temple of inanna because it's the best way to do it, or because it's the easy way out of giving it up all together?

Now, here's the clincher. Personally, I feel that of the choices suitable for abstinence, sexual abstinence is the easiest, least intrusive method. However, other forms can be almost as effective. Sexual urges are the most very basic of human compulsions, and so are the most effective urges to utilize towards unbalancing the human condition. Abstinence from speaking, from routine, from a particularly strong vice, etc., can also serve towards the same end, but can be more intrusive on one's 'worldly' life. Any form of abstinence will first unbalance the psyche, and second of course, free up energy. The key is to find some pattern which is compulsive in some way. If it isn't compulsive, there's no point - not only is there not enough energy involved, not enough to make it a compulsive current, but also it is in the realm of activities which come and go in life, and so will not unbalance the psyche enough to make a significant difference when the moment of transformation comes.

And, I think that's about all I have to relate on this subject. The choice remains individual, there are a billion different configurations that humans come in, so the need or lack thereof for abstinence the process of astral development must of course be individual. What either configuration suggests about the individual, I haven't yet asked. However, discerning the truth of the matter on the individual basis, is of paramount importance. Never make assumptions, especially in magick.

peace


--------------------
The world is complicated - that which makes it up is elegantly simplistic, but infinitely versatile.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

UnKnown1
post Apr 10 2007, 12:26 AM
Post #12


Smasher666
Group Icon
Posts: 996
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 27 pts




The subject of the fast was discussed in my yahoo group so I will repost my comments here.

BYM is right that it is possible to do the fast literally. However after working with the Necronomicon for years I have made my own interpretations. After all it is full of blinds.

The last 7 days do not eat meat. What I do during this time is I
replace meat with sea food. It is the red meat being removed from the
diet which is beneficial. Sea food is ok as nothing which grows in
our masters waters can be forbidden.

The last 3 days it says to eat nothing whatsoever. I interpret this
as do not eat during the daylight hours. As it mentions nothing about
not eating at night. I observe a Ramadan like fast during the last 3
days of only eating after the Sun has set or before it has risen.

Lets note that unless you are going to be lying down in a room and not
moving much those last 3 days you are not going to be able to go three
days without eating anyways. We all have to work etc and without some
food you might wind up passing out while driving or operating heavy
machinery etc. Besides just not eating during the day time is kinda
hard when you are used to eating normal meals. Its tough. As is not
eating red meat the last 7 days for me. Fortunately I love fish and
Sushi so I make it.

Lets talk about sex. First I apologize to any who may find this
offensive. I think it is important that the initiate has a clear
perspective on this however. I can be very blunt but I will try to
explain this tactfully.

The Nec says not to spill your seed for the space of 30 days outside
the temple of Ishtar. But its ok to have sex if you do not lose your
essence.

Lets face it unless you are 60 years old you are not going to go 30
days without busting a nut. If you do please get some Viagra
immediately.

My interpretation is do not spill your seed unless it is with a woman
who the essence of the goddess is within. For example if I were to
tell my wife sorry we can not have sex for 30 days I do not think that
would go over very well. She might stop making me coffee in the morning
and that would be a complete disaster!

Losing the essence is like losing power. Lust is one way this essence
is lost. During the 30 days of purification try to control your
desires. Slim down on your porn collection etc. Try not to look at
women and think un pure thoughts. If you have a girlfriend or wife
then proceed as usual. Do not affect your personal relationship over
this 30 day thing. Thats not what Inanna wants. However if you pick
up some girl at the bar just to bang her ok you are crossing the line.

Performing the Hieros Gammos with your lady can be interpreted
as worshiping in the temple of Ishtar. The Nec says its okay to do
that as long as you do not lose your essence.

For those who have no wife or girlfriend lets face it you are not
going to say goodbye to rosey palmer and her 5 sisters for 30 days.
Suggestion try to go as long as you can without doing anything and
then when you do think of Inanna.

Make sure that you make the 4 directional seals the gate seal and the
seal of the gate on the previous full moon before the gate walk.
Right now I believe the next full moon is on the second. You have to
make these seals at night on the full moon and let the moonlight touch
them. Then you wrap them up and put them away for the month and never
let sunlight touch them.

However many have walked gates in my presence without making these
seals on the full moon. So its still possible I just do not think it
can be as good of an experience as if it is done correctly.


Peace

Edunpanna

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Apr 10 2007, 12:29 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Akasha Daeva
post Aug 27 2009, 07:41 PM
Post #13


3 Posts Probation
Group Icon
Posts: 2
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




I always interpret it as a common purifying practice and we as serious magicians shouldn't be making excuses as to why we cannot perform it.. it certainly can be done if you have the right discipline/training/background.

basically, you can have all the sex you want.. the more orgasms your partner has the better.. just don't ejaculate.

It's almost exactly like certain taoist sexual practices.

learn how to control your ejaculations before attempting to have sex with your partner though, i would say.. there is a variety of literature about this in tantric and taoist traditions.

metaphysically speaking, it is a highly effective way (and very good for a neophyte as you most certainly cannot ignore the effects, in my experience) of storing and building your energy - i.e. not allowing any to be released. Your partner having an orgasm only serves to give you more energy in this practice.

try doing it for a week, then two weeks.. finally, when the stars and moon are right you can take up the purification period with certainty and experience.

Good hunting!

Akasha Daeva

(p.s. - most psychically open people will start to notice the build up of sexual energy in your sphere of sensation.. its kinda fun)

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Closed
Topic Notes
Reply to this topicStart new topic

Collapse

Similar Topics

Topic Title Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
Moon Dog 1 plainsight 1,348 Jan 12 2011, 11:47 AM
Last post by: Tir Mala
Herbs That Correspond To The Moon? 3 Mchawi 2,681 Sep 1 2010, 03:31 PM
Last post by: Dulcea
The Moon And Spirits 1 VitalWinds 1,297 Aug 13 2010, 06:24 PM
Last post by: ☞Tomber☜
The Aura Of The Moon 4 grim789 2,517 May 2 2010, 07:36 PM
Last post by: grim789
Full Moon = Insomnia.....? 1 GreenChase1 1,180 Mar 29 2010, 06:46 AM
Last post by: esoterica

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 1st March 2021 - 12:54 PM