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 How To: Astrial Travel
Dancing Coyote
post Jan 16 2009, 02:45 AM
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I've been reading this section and it seems filled with, "how do I do this in the first place?" So I'm going to go out and post my favored techniques and if any of you have questions feel free to ask. If any of the other more experienced practitioners have anything to add, subtract, or anything inbetween please do so.

To astrially travel it's best you have a clean space to work in, meaning somewhere comfortable and (if you're somewhat of an experienced practitioner) shielding on the space your in, and on oneself. Your body needs to be in the SAFEST place you can think of, for obvious reasons. Next you'll have to comfort yourself, getting into the mind-frame of abstract thought because you'll need it in that other realm. I usually look at some art previously, to grease the mental filters.

We got the basic prep work out of the way, now for the meat of the conquest. I find it easiest (and most comfortable) to lie down somewhere dark, some find it best if they're in the Lotus position, or their general meditation stance; whatever works for you. Now remember to keep your eyes closed, using your mental acuity and abstract thought to "project" your body into your immediate surroundings. Some say it's easiest to do some deep breathing and count down from Ten to Zero very slowly, with each number your energetic body starts moving outside the physical one, at Zero you should be fully outside of the body. This may take a few tries. The most common thing I hear from people traveling astrially is that they see their energetic body from the third person, this is normal. If the steps have worked you should be looking at your physical body meditating in your vicinity, some people freak out at this stage and jump back in their bodies realizing "I can do it!"

IMPORTANT
Patients is the key, not everyone gets this on their first try. If one does succeed there are some warnings and things you should know in the field. You can ALWAYS find your body, think of a silver cord stretching from your physical body and your energetic body. If you should feel the need to come home simply pluck that chord like a guitar string and you'll find yourself back in your body with a jolt. Always remember not to eat or drink anything on your journeys, that would be a very bad thing. If you need an example think Pan's Labyrinth...


This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: Jan 16 2009, 02:46 AM


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Shogunronin
post Jan 16 2009, 02:23 PM
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Are you 100% sure this is safe? I've never approached Astral travel before because I always been frightend I won't be able to get back into my body after I have astrally projected. Do you just 'think of' coming back into you're body and you're back within a second? Also what happends if one 'doesn't have a cord'? I have tried to astral travel before and had failed attempts..the furthest I've ever got is when I started having a 'falling sensation' and my entire body went cold and I heard all these lazer noises.

Edit: I just tried it now and I got this 'floating feeling' like I was in the air but when I opened my eyes I was still in my body..did I do something wrong?

This post has been edited by Shogunronin: Jan 16 2009, 02:29 PM

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Vagrant Dreamer
post Jan 16 2009, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE(Shogunronin @ Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM) *

Are you 100% sure this is safe? I've never approached Astral travel before because I always been frightend I won't be able to get back into my body after I have astrally projected. Do you just 'think of' coming back into you're body and you're back within a second? Also what happends if one 'doesn't have a cord'? I have tried to astral travel before and had failed attempts..the furthest I've ever got is when I started having a 'falling sensation' and my entire body went cold and I heard all these lazer noises.

Edit: I just tried it now and I got this 'floating feeling' like I was in the air but when I opened my eyes I was still in my body..did I do something wrong?


You opened you physical eyes. One of the first hurdles in astral travel, astral projection, etc., is learning to see. I learned by sitting, observing everything in the room I was in, closing my eyes and recreating that 'holographic' image in my head. Then imagine moving around the room looking at individual things, until I was used to being able to navigate a setting in my head.

Then, when I projected, my mind was used to interpreting a setting without the necessity of my eyes.

Imagining a space, is not the same thing as seeing it while astral projecting, but is based on the same faculties, and so carries over.

Astral projection is generally safe at first and for the average individual. The dangers are not worth discussing here, as they will not likely apply to you. Just remember to walk around, clap your hands, feel things with your skin, etc., after you get up to ground yourself from the experience.

peace


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Dancing Coyote
post Jan 16 2009, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE(Shogunronin @ Jan 16 2009, 03:23 PM) *

Are you 100% sure this is safe? I've never approached Astral travel before because I always been frightend I won't be able to get back into my body after I have astrally projected. Do you just 'think of' coming back into you're body and you're back within a second? Also what happends if one 'doesn't have a cord'? I have tried to astral travel before and had failed attempts..the furthest I've ever got is when I started having a 'falling sensation' and my entire body went cold and I heard all these lazer noises.

Edit: I just tried it now and I got this 'floating feeling' like I was in the air but when I opened my eyes I was still in my body..did I do something wrong?


I agree with Vagrant, not only do you have to train yourself out of the fear, you have to realize how to operate in such a space. The astrial plane is similar to this one "as above is below" however you are able to do things you wouldn't normally be able to do, the sky's the limit. In your own home you have nothing to fear, but the fear is normal, you feel like you're committing the great taboo of the body, leaving it. Leaving your body is as dangerous as you make it, you will always have that cord, the only way you won't have it is if you let yourself get tricked into thinking it's not there. You don't have to visualize it being there constantly, for various reasons I don't do that. It's only useful when you need to use it. Have you tried calming yourself and counting down from ten taking it very slowly having one to two deep breaths between numbers? I think what's keeping you from the travel is the anxiety of success, which is also a very common thing among practitioners (something I also struggle with).

That floating sensation is just the beginning, work on your visuals and watch yourself leave. If you retain some of your spirit in your body you still have some of the basic faculty controls, like opening your eyes. In doing so you put yourself back in your body, you're getting close. Practice, and patience is the key, if you feel like you're getting a headache stop and drink some water.

Good luck, let me know how this has worked for you of if have any more questions.
Dancin' Coyote

This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: Jan 16 2009, 03:57 PM


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Shogunronin
post Jan 16 2009, 04:18 PM
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Okay I just been practicing again with the techniques and tips you both provided and I started to hear these humming noises all around me then my body went cold and my black vision turned to all I can describe is white flashes kind of like the type of visions seen on a old movie thats being played on one of those old age projectors. I think you are right I am scared of the success but I will keep trying thank you for you're help Vagrant and Coyote

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clips
post May 6 2009, 04:13 PM
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Thanks for the tips, i've tried it a couple of times now and i get to a point where i feel light electric pulses kinda thing and i start to feel my body being pulled down but then i end up falling asleep haha. Is this normal? what can i do to remain conscious? And even though you say the dangers aren't worth discussing here because they wouldn't apply i'd like to know what i may encounter out there just for peace of mind sake.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)


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Dancing Coyote
post May 6 2009, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(clips @ May 6 2009, 05:13 PM) *

Thanks for the tips, i've tried it a couple of times now and i get to a point where i feel light electric pulses kinda thing and i start to feel my body being pulled down but then i end up falling asleep haha. Is this normal? what can i do to remain conscious? And even though you say the dangers aren't worth discussing here because they wouldn't apply i'd like to know what i may encounter out there just for peace of mind sake.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)


If it's sleep you're having difficulty with I recommend regulating your breathing pattern in such a way that is unusually more deep and you have to consistently remind yourself to breathe in such a way.

Edit: the reason I don't name the problems are this: By naming the problems you in turn seek them out. If I have specific problems engineered to my experience they are in turn because of my personal relations with that world. You will experience your own problems and you will figure out how to avoid them. Words of advice: If you are offered anything don't take it, treat it like someone is offering you something on the street: You aren't special you just look like an easy target. If you encounter gods or what you think are gods I don't care and neither do any of your friends or family, you can not convince anyone of what you have seen to be truth.


This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: May 6 2009, 04:37 PM


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clips
post May 6 2009, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE(Dancing Coyote @ May 6 2009, 03:32 PM) *

If it's sleep you're having difficulty with I recommend regulating your breathing pattern in such a way that is unusually more deep and you have to consistently remind yourself to breathe in such a way.

Edit: the reason I don't name the problems are this: By naming the problems you in turn seek them out. If I have specific problems engineered to my experience they are in turn because of my personal relations with that world. You will experience your own problems and you will figure out how to avoid them. Words of advice: If you are offered anything don't take it, treat it like someone is offering you something on the street: You aren't special you just look like an easy target. If you encounter gods or what you think are gods I don't care and neither do any of your friends or family, you can not convince anyone of what you have seen to be truth.


Ok I understand what you mean now. I'll try the breathing technique thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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Dancing Coyote
post May 7 2009, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE(clips @ May 6 2009, 08:01 PM) *

Ok I understand what you mean now. I'll try the breathing technique thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Good luck.


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GarnetRose
post Aug 7 2009, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE(Dancing Coyote @ Jan 16 2009, 04:45 AM) *

I've been reading this section and it seems filled with, "how do I do this in the first place?" So I'm going to go out and post my favored techniques and if any of you have questions feel free to ask. If any of the other more experienced practitioners have anything to add, subtract, or anything inbetween please do so.

To astrially travel it's best you have a clean space to work in, meaning somewhere comfortable and (if you're somewhat of an experienced practitioner) shielding on the space your in, and on oneself. Your body needs to be in the SAFEST place you can think of, for obvious reasons. Next you'll have to comfort yourself, getting into the mind-frame of abstract thought because you'll need it in that other realm. I usually look at some art previously, to grease the mental filters.

We got the basic prep work out of the way, now for the meat of the conquest. I find it easiest (and most comfortable) to lie down somewhere dark, some find it best if they're in the Lotus position, or their general meditation stance; whatever works for you. Now remember to keep your eyes closed, using your mental acuity and abstract thought to "project" your body into your immediate surroundings. Some say it's easiest to do some deep breathing and count down from Ten to Zero very slowly, with each number your energetic body starts moving outside the physical one, at Zero you should be fully outside of the body. This may take a few tries. The most common thing I hear from people traveling astrially is that they see their energetic body from the third person, this is normal. If the steps have worked you should be looking at your physical body meditating in your vicinity, some people freak out at this stage and jump back in their bodies realizing "I can do it!"

IMPORTANT
Patients is the key, not everyone gets this on their first try. If one does succeed there are some warnings and things you should know in the field. You can ALWAYS find your body, think of a silver cord stretching from your physical body and your energetic body. If you should feel the need to come home simply pluck that chord like a guitar string and you'll find yourself back in your body with a jolt. Always remember not to eat or drink anything on your journeys, that would be a very bad thing. If you need an example think Pan's Labyrinth...


I'm relatively new to this practice. I've heard of astral projection before, and I've never tried it before, but I really want to. Where am I supposed to go once I'm out of my body? What do I do? Besides eating and drinking anything, is there anything else that I definitely shouldn't do?

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Dancing Coyote
post Aug 8 2009, 12:40 AM
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QUOTE(GarnetRose @ Aug 7 2009, 11:05 PM) *

I'm relatively new to this practice. I've heard of astral projection before, and I've never tried it before, but I really want to. Where am I supposed to go once I'm out of my body? What do I do? Besides eating and drinking anything, is there anything else that I definitely shouldn't do?


You can do anything you like, from wandering the streets to spying on your neighbors (I don't recommend the latter). Keep a rational mind space and try not to do anything you normally wouldn't do in the flesh. Don't eat, drink or accept any gifts of any form: no matter who you think they're from. Good luck with your progress post if you have any further questions.


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Xenomancer
post Aug 8 2009, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE
Don't eat, drink or accept any gifts of any form: no matter who you think they're from. Good luck with your progress post if you have any further questions.



What is the potential harm of receiving a gift on the astral? What are the possible repercussions?


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Dancing Coyote
post Aug 8 2009, 01:15 PM
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QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Aug 8 2009, 01:08 PM) *

What is the potential harm of receiving a gift on the astral? What are the possible repercussions?



You then have a link to a very convincing iteration of something or someone you hold highly. The dead do not give you gifts for they either have been stuck in the land of the in-between and (most likely) became very violent or they have passed on. Those that have passed on can be seen from time to time and the gifts they give are in what they do rather than an object. So you're most likely getting a gift from an impersonator spirit, think of it this way: why on earth would Allister Crowley give anyone a gift? He's dead, and yes he could be considered a god-like figure amongst his followers but (if you aren't familiar) he is renown for putting dangerous (and false) incense into his spells to lead people astray. Short answer: We go out to the spirit world and loose our heads, we're looking for someone/something to tell us that we're "the chosen one" (I remember that phase). Just remember your ethics in the flesh, don't do things you wouldn't do in your body. Remember Spirits don't just give things away, they eat and need to live too you know? So they must be getting something out of it.

Ways to get rid of objects: put them in a circle of binding (the gifts sometimes make their true nature out to be known at this time) and banish them. Sometimes the spirit will nag you to take it back, if you find it difficult to ignore: simply put the spirit in a circle of binding and banish it too. There's no greater "No" than that.

Since these places have been brought up I will elaborate: The land of the dead and the in-between aren't actually where you go when you astrial travel but you can get there, I wouldn't suggest going there without your spirit ally or familiar if you're a beginner. (What I call) 'The Underworld' however is a great place to go when astrially traveling, to get there you have to find the moving door (it usually shows up when you're looking for it) and as an added bonus there are guides just as you enter the place. And The Pillar is easy to find in the underworld.

Good luck.

This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: Aug 8 2009, 01:56 PM


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Xenomancer
post Aug 8 2009, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE
You then have a link to a very convincing iteration of something or someone you hold highly.


I still don't understand what you mean. Please elaborate this point further.

QUOTE
Just remember your ethics in the flesh, don't do things you wouldn't do in your body. Remember Spirits don't just give things away, they eat and need to live too you know?


Tell me about it. In one of the realms there is a really nice Mall. Pretty damn decent food court, too. One of the stalls is a breakfast stand. The muffins are to die for!!

Eat nothing on the astral? Pishaw. I eat if I pay, I pay if I get payed, I get payed if I work, and even then, would have to be on the astral. I don't know what economy they have up there, but, if "as above, so below," then there is indeed some mode of compensation. Either way...try the muffins. You WILL be sold on that!

QUOTE
(What I call) 'The Underworld' however is a great place to go when astrially traveling, to get there you have to find the moving door (it usually shows up when you're looking for it) and as an added bonus there are guides just as you enter the place. And The Pillar is easy to find in the underworld.


I personally found the "Mugen Corridor" ("Mugen" is japanese for "Infinite," lit. "Useless count") to be rather useful. Think the series of doors from Matrix 2 that the Keymaster opens up to. Yeah. Something like that. Interesting doors there, I tell ya.

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Aug 8 2009, 06:44 PM


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¡HA HA! ¡ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!
-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Dancing Coyote
post Aug 8 2009, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Aug 8 2009, 07:40 PM) *

I still don't understand what you mean. Please elaborate this point further.


You have a 'gift' from something that likes to play pretend.

QUOTE

Tell me about it. In one of the realms there is a really nice Mall. Pretty damn decent food court, too. One of the stalls is a breakfast stand. The muffins are to die for!! Eat nothing on the astral? Pishaw. I eat if I pay, I pay if I get payed, I get payed if I work, and even then, would have to be on the astral. I don't know what economy they have up there, but, if "as above, so below," then there is indeed some mode of compensation. Either way...try the muffins. You WILL be sold on that!


If you've seen Pan's Labyrinth, this is the reason you should not eat in the other-worlds. Pan's Labyrinth has a seen that is rather close to the truth, also: if you eat too much your body becomes linked to the plane you're in. It's just a bad idea, there are other pop culture examples I could use but I strongly suggest you don't eat in the astrial plane.

QUOTE

I personally found the "Mugen Corridor" ("Mugen" is japanese for "Infinite," lit. "Useless count") to be rather useful. Think the series of doors from Matrix 2 that the Keymaster opens up to. Yeah. Something like that. Interesting doors there, I tell ya.


There are very many descriptions of this place, I see mine as a pillar.


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Mchawi
post Sep 17 2009, 04:50 PM
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Hello Dancing.

I am now in the air grade of cerimonial practice and, as a result, my dreams are becoming more alchemic and meaningful than before. Have decided to put my astral hat back on and give it all another go with the hope that through travelling astrally I will be able to lucid dream. Had a few questions if you don't mind...

1. How deep does you meditation have to be before you can sucessfully leave your body?

2. How do you, personally, deepen your meditation?

3. If practicing within a circle are you then restricted to that circle?

Intresting quote I thought you might like...

"Dreams are personalized mythology and myth depersonalized dreams"

Much thanks.

Mchawi

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Xenomancer
post Sep 17 2009, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Aug 8 2009, 07:40 PM) *

I still don't understand what you mean. Please elaborate this point further.


You have a 'gift' from something that likes to play pretend.


On what basis do you say it pretends? Do you mean to say that only those who 'pretend' give gifts? Or that giving freely of the self is non-existent on the Astral? Or perhaps that giving a gift is taboo? Or that all spirits are pretenders, which enables them to give gifts?

I seek the link in logic between giving a gift and danger. So far, from what you have told me, and the information supplied, they are still arbitrary of each other. Please provide me the link.


QUOTE
QUOTE
QUOTE

Tell me about it. In one of the realms there is a really nice Mall. Pretty damn decent food court, too. One of the stalls is a breakfast stand. The muffins are to die for!! Eat nothing on the astral? Pishaw. I eat if I pay, I pay if I get payed, I get payed if I work, and even then, would have to be on the astral. I don't know what economy they have up there, but, if "as above, so below," then there is indeed some mode of compensation. Either way...try the muffins. You WILL be sold on that!



If you've seen Pan's Labyrinth, this is the reason you should not eat in the other-worlds. Pan's Labyrinth has a seen that is rather close to the truth, also: if you eat too much your body becomes linked to the plane you're in. It's just a bad idea, there are other pop culture examples I could use but I strongly suggest you don't eat in the astrial plane.


I'm sorry, I never saw the movie. And plus, even if I established a link to such a place, you still have not indicated as to how this link would sever the link to the mundane world. Too little info!! Elaborate!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

So let me get this straight. No food, no drink, no sex on the astral plane, a place of infinite possibilities? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And that eventually, I can be stuck there, just by partaking of it, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif) And why is that? Why would I become more in tune with something external of myself rather than that which is internal to myself? Do you know from experience? Are all spirits truly like that, or just the ones you hung out with?

And if all spirits are truly like that, why bother with the astral plane to begin with?

...and it boils down to this quote again:

QUOTE

Keep a rational mind space and try not to do anything you normally wouldn't do in the flesh. Don't eat, drink or accept any gifts of any form: no matter who you think they're from. Good luck with your progress post if you have any further questions.


Paradox, much? To accept a gift from someone is something I would definetely do in the flesh. Accept a cigarette, a drink, a free meal, maybe even a proposition for getting some uhn-tiss uhn-tiss uhn-tiss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilB.gif) and yet you still maintain that I cannot do this in the astral. Taking this paradigm for what it is, then in what kind of light of credibility do I hold the idea that "The astral is a truer form of the reality we know?" Because now, it seems as though the only truth, by this logic, is only deception, lies, and suffering. What's the point if you cannot enjoy yourself where you are?

And as for food and drink, it's called a tamper-proof seal in the mundane world. In the spiritual realm, if indeed the Hermetic principles are true ("as above, so below"), then there is an analogous function which one may tell if something has been tampered with as well.

This also works in reverse: If I suspect on the astral that someone hawkered a loogie in my sandwitch, I'd just punch the punk in the face, no questions asked. As above, so below! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evil2.gif)

Please, I don't mean to mock you. I want to know from what basis you make your conclusions!


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¡HA HA! ¡ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!
-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Aphrodite
post Sep 18 2009, 12:15 AM
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I’ve heard from multiple reputable sources that when astral projecting, avoid mingling with other entities.

Anyways there are so many different ways to achieve astral projection, I‘ve heard of some very strange techniques. My technique, one that I learned, is to start by laying still in a comfortable position. Clear your mind and focus on the soft ringing sound in your ears. You will then start to feel itchy and twitchy, ignore this to the best you can , its your body’s natural way of testing to see if its asleep or not. Then you should start to feel your body getting heavy and/or like your are slowly melting into the mattress. Make sure you have cleared your mind absolutely (which is a difficult task). You should start to experience the vibrations. I’ve only gotten as far as intense vibrations and spinning before I lose focus.

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Dancing Coyote
post Sep 18 2009, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ Sep 17 2009, 05:50 PM) *

Hello Dancing.

I am now in the air grade of cerimonial practice and, as a result, my dreams are becoming more alchemic and meaningful than before. Have decided to put my astral hat back on and give it all another go with the hope that through travelling astrally I will be able to lucid dream. Had a few questions if you don't mind...

1. How deep does you meditation have to be before you can sucessfully leave your body?


It's good you're going to start up again, I find this space rather useful. I personally don't know how to activate Lucid dreams so I can't give you advice on the subject. But when it comes to meditation I suggest you assume the most comfortable meditation position. When it comes to how deep it all depends on how strong you want the experience, deeper meditation means a more vivid spirit world. The more used to traveling the easier you are to jump into the world. Those born with the ability to travel are generally found staring off into space for long periods of time before the get used to controlling it.

QUOTE(Mchawi @ Sep 17 2009, 05:50 PM) *

2. How do you, personally, deepen your meditation?


I personally usually try and quite all the witless banter going on in the forefronts of my mind, and use pure visuals to guide me (if that makes any sense).

QUOTE(Mchawi @ Sep 17 2009, 05:50 PM) *

3. If practicing within a circle are you then restricted to that circle?


Partly, I've been trapped by a teacher/student duo fishing for spirits in the area but they're usually easy to break. You can make portals easier in circles (for whatever reason). I've seen practitioners step in and out of circles during spells to grab things so if you're casting in a circle out of your body you can if you don't find it taboo to leave a circle during a spell.


QUOTE(Mchawi @ Sep 17 2009, 05:50 PM) *

Intresting quote I thought you might like...

"Dreams are personalized mythology and myth depersonalized dreams"

Much thanks.

Mchawi


That is a very nice quote, thanks for posting and let me know if you have any more questions or I was unclear anywhere.

Good luck,
Dancin' Coyote


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post Sep 18 2009, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE
I’ve only gotten as far as intense vibrations and spinning before I lose focus.


I'm the same way. Once I get to the dual-toroid spinning, the stimulation of the sensation becomes too much for me to relax into. It's mind-blowing. I suppose I just need to get to it more in order to get used to it.

Imagine this picture moving, and spinning in both directions. I can feel the energy going this way. It feels like it galvanizes my internal organs, but then I just wake up because the stimulation becomes more than I can bear.

(IMG:http://www.brettsteffey.com/Sacred%20Geometry%20Home%20Page_files/torus_top_view.gif)

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Sep 18 2009, 02:56 PM


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-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Dancing Coyote
post Sep 18 2009, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Sep 17 2009, 10:57 PM) *

You have a 'gift' from something that likes to play pretend.
On what basis do you say it pretends? Do you mean to say that only those who 'pretend' give gifts? Or that giving freely of the self is non-existent on the Astral? Or perhaps that giving a gift is taboo? Or that all spirits are pretenders, which enables them to give gifts?

I seek the link in logic between giving a gift and danger. So far, from what you have told me, and the information supplied, they are still arbitrary of each other. Please provide me the link.
If you've seen Pan's Labyrinth, this is the reason you should not eat in the other-worlds. Pan's Labyrinth has a seen that is rather close to the truth, also: if you eat too much your body becomes linked to the plane you're in. It's just a bad idea, there are other pop culture examples I could use but I strongly suggest you don't eat in the astrial plane.

I'm sorry, I never saw the movie. And plus, even if I established a link to such a place, you still have not indicated as to how this link would sever the link to the mundane world. Too little info!! Elaborate!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

So let me get this straight. No food, no drink, no sex on the astral plane, a place of infinite possibilities? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) And that eventually, I can be stuck there, just by partaking of it, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif) And why is that? Why would I become more in tune with something external of myself rather than that which is internal to myself? Do you know from experience? Are all spirits truly like that, or just the ones you hung out with?

And if all spirits are truly like that, why bother with the astral plane to begin with?

...and it boils down to this quote again:
Paradox, much? To accept a gift from someone is something I would definetely do in the flesh. Accept a cigarette, a drink, a free meal, maybe even a proposition for getting some uhn-tiss uhn-tiss uhn-tiss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilB.gif) and yet you still maintain that I cannot do this in the astral. Taking this paradigm for what it is, then in what kind of light of credibility do I hold the idea that "The astral is a truer form of the reality we know?" Because now, it seems as though the only truth, by this logic, is only deception, lies, and suffering. What's the point if you cannot enjoy yourself where you are?

And as for food and drink, it's called a tamper-proof seal in the mundane world. In the spiritual realm, if indeed the Hermetic principles are true ("as above, so below"), then there is an analogous function which one may tell if something has been tampered with as well.

This also works in reverse: If I suspect on the astral that someone hawkered a loogie in my sandwitch, I'd just punch the punk in the face, no questions asked. As above, so below! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evil2.gif)

Please, I don't mean to mock you. I want to know from what basis you make your conclusions!


I'm not amused.

You can take my words with a grain of salt. I don't understand how you can say you're getting no results in one topic and give advice on the subjects you're having no results with. I don't see any real questions here it just seems like you're trying to be funny by saying I'm contradicting myself. As above is below, we eat and nourish ourselves to stay in this world. I'm not going to verify your 'supernatural experience' for you, I'm just trying to warn people who are new and aid their progress. I've found it to be a very bad idea to eat in any spirit world, you think you can go down there and be treated like a normal person which is ignorant on your part. Usually Spirits of any nature are jealous of the ability to exist in the physical to the degree we do. They see it as an insult when we 'drop by' in the only form they're capable of, fully expecting them to amuse us. Also Spirits of the dead find living just as mysterious as we find death, thus creating problems.

Dancin' Coyote

P.S. that picture just gives me a headache.

This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: Sep 18 2009, 03:21 PM


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post Sep 18 2009, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Sep 18 2009, 04:51 PM) *

I'm the same way. Once I get to the dual-toroid spinning, the stimulation of the sensation becomes too much for me to relax into. It's mind-blowing. I suppose I just need to get to it more in order to get used to it.

Imagine this picture moving, and spinning in both directions. I can feel the energy going this way. It feels like it galvanizes my internal organs, but then I just wake up because the stimulation becomes more than I can bear.

(IMG:http://www.brettsteffey.com/Sacred%20Geometry%20Home%20Page_files/torus_top_view.gif)


That’s a good technique I’ve tried something similar that successfully brought on the vibrations.

I wonder how people are able to get passed the vibration stage, its very powerful and distracting. . . Anyways I heard that after the vibration stage you start to hear loud knocking and low rumbling (as if a 18 wheeler is driving past your home), then pop! Your out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif) Then you've got to do the whole "learning to see" issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)

If I ever achieve astral projection, I will interact with entities but will use caution as I would in the real world.

I'm curious, Dancing Coyote do you experience the “vibration stage” ?

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post Sep 18 2009, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE(Aphrodite @ Sep 18 2009, 06:09 PM) *

That’s a good technique I’ve tried something similar that successfully brought on the vibrations.

I wonder how people are able to get passed the vibration stage, its very powerful and distracting. . . Anyways I heard that after the vibration stage you start to hear loud knocking and low rumbling (as if a 18 wheeler is driving past your home), then pop! Your out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif) Then you've got to do the whole "learning to see" issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)

If I ever achieve astral projection, I will interact with entities but will use caution as I would in the real world.

I'm curious, Dancing Coyote do you experience the “vibration stage” ?


Subtly, like a slight shimmer over the skin.


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Xenomancer
post Sep 19 2009, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE
I'm not amused.

Good, because I'm not kidding.

QUOTE
You can take my words with a grain of salt. I don't understand how you can say you're getting no results in one topic and give advice on the subjects you're having no results with.

Are you that forgetful to the hermetic principles of "As above, So below; as within, so without?" All things are analogues of one another. It is in realizing this that one achieves a sense of oneness. From this premise, by looking at any one single thing, one may come onto revelations of a seemingly unrelated thing. This is how divination starts!

My lack of ability to execute the actual deed of astral projection is one thing. I am not arguing the execution of the technique. I am openly admitting to not knowing how as to actually doing that.

It is the nuances of interaction and sociological profile of the astral that seems to be debatable. You gave excellent information as to the execution of projection, but gave no real basis on why the astral seems to be as scary as a place as you make it out to be. Otherwise, the projection mechanics seem sound.

QUOTE
I don't see any real questions here it just seems like you're trying to be funny by saying I'm contradicting myself.

Not my goal at all, friend! More often than not, when people seemingly contradict themselves, it is because they leave out a bit of contextual nuance to help those who don't know. Otherwise, it goes over our heads!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)

QUOTE
As above is below, we eat and nourish ourselves to stay in this world. I'm not going to verify your 'supernatural experience' for you, I'm just trying to warn people who are new and aid their progress.

Understood. Noted. Acknowledged. When I get there, I will conduct experiments myself, keeping your warnings in mind.

QUOTE
I've found it to be a very bad idea to eat in any spirit world, you think you can go down there and be treated like a normal person which is ignorant on your part.

Are you asking if I think that way, or are you making that assumption for me?

QUOTE
Usually Spirits of any nature are jealous of the ability to exist in the physical to the degree we do. They see it as an insult when we 'drop by' in the only form they're capable of, fully expecting them to amuse us.

Part in blue, I understand completely.

NOW that you put that into context, it seems feasible that such dangers may arise on the astral, on the basis of jealousy and spite. This is the context that I was referring to earlier. Without a premise established before the fact, the listener/reader will just see inconsistencies. Thank you for giving me the bit I was looking for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The red part... I'm not so sure about. Do astral beings really think that we see them as amusement?

QUOTE
Also Spirits of the dead find living just as mysterious as we find death, thus creating problems.

Interpreted implied premise: Spirits of the dead inhabit the astral.
Counter premise: I always understood that spirits of the dead did not inhabit the astral per se, but rather one between the astral and the physical, like a -limbo- of sorts.

Also, what kind of problems may arise from a mutual sense of mysteriousness? Or did you mean to word your statement differently?

Again, I do not by any means mean to mock! I am trying to honestly learn, and listen! As I said before, without stated premises before the fact, I get confused!

PS
QUOTE
Subtly, like a slight shimmer over the skin.

Almost like a galvanization? Like a weak voltage current through the skin?

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Sep 19 2009, 10:43 PM


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¡HA HA! ¡ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!
-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Dancing Coyote
post Sep 20 2009, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE(Xenomancer @ Sep 19 2009, 11:40 PM) *

Good, because I'm not kidding.
Are you that forgetful to the hermetic principles of "As above, So below; as within, so without?" All things are analogues of one another. It is in realizing this that one achieves a sense of oneness. From this premise, by looking at any one single thing, one may come onto revelations of a seemingly unrelated thing. This is how divination starts!

My lack of ability to execute the actual deed of astral projection is one thing. I am not arguing the execution of the technique. I am openly admitting to not knowing how as to actually doing that.

It is the nuances of interaction and sociological profile of the astral that seems to be debatable. You gave excellent information as to the execution of projection, but gave no real basis on why the astral seems to be as scary as a place as you make it out to be. Otherwise, the projection mechanics seem sound.
Not my goal at all, friend! More often than not, when people seemingly contradict themselves, it is because they leave out a bit of contextual nuance to help those who don't know. Otherwise, it goes over our heads!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)
Understood. Noted. Acknowledged. When I get there, I will conduct experiments myself, keeping your warnings in mind.
Are you asking if I think that way, or are you making that assumption for me?
Part in blue, I understand completely.

NOW that you put that into context, it seems feasible that such dangers may arise on the astral, on the basis of jealousy and spite. This is the context that I was referring to earlier. Without a premise established before the fact, the listener/reader will just see inconsistencies. Thank you for giving me the bit I was looking for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The red part... I'm not so sure about. Do astral beings really think that we see them as amusement?
Interpreted implied premise: Spirits of the dead inhabit the astral.
Counter premise: I always understood that spirits of the dead did not inhabit the astral per se, but rather one between the astral and the physical, like a -limbo- of sorts.

Also, what kind of problems may arise from a mutual sense of mysteriousness? Or did you mean to word your statement differently?

Again, I do not by any means mean to mock! I am trying to honestly learn, and listen! As I said before, without stated premises before the fact, I get confused!

PS

Almost like a galvanization? Like a weak voltage current through the skin?


I don't want to argue, and I'm glad you've taken an interest in astrial projection.

I've also found that spirits of the dead inhabit a parallel plane to that of the astrial.



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Vagrant Dreamer
post Sep 20 2009, 08:45 AM
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Coyote, Xenomancer is a Gemini and has to have a framework that - by any definition - is systematic, logical, and structural in order to grasp it thoroughly. To a large degree, I am the same way.

Let me try to reinterpret what Coyote is saying in Gemini-speak.

We've already discussed at some point elsewhere the nature of Perspective and Consciousness I believe - in brief your awareness is a point of perception which can inhabit anything to which you have a strong enough connection, starting of course with your own body, mind, and spirit in all of it's components; one of which is the astral body.

Physical food nourishes this complex because all physical things are intersections of Physical, Psychic, and Spiritual potentialities. Some foods to a greater degree than others in terms of quality. In the physical world, as Coyote said, food keeps us in this world - if we don't eat, and have not the sufficient power to sustain ourselves without, then our complex is not supported and decays (we die). This is part of the reason that fasting is one method of entering into spiritual ordeals, initiations, etc. - because the lack of physical nourishment loosens the bond that holds our complex together and we can more fully enter into spiritual dimensions (under the guidance of a spiritual adept, to minimize the danger of such an ordeal).

When we shunt our awareness into an astral vehicle, that element of our complex which already exists there, and move it out of sych with our current physical (and even psychic) potentiality, we have to be careful that we don't form unwanted connections to planes alien to our typical makeup. If we eat something, take a gift, make some exchange with some part of that foreign plane, a connection can be established that thereafter 'tugs' at our previously stable complex. The danger is that until we are experienced enough to discover it, we don't necessarily know where that plane is relative to our own natural 'environ': forming connections with beneficial planes which are harmonized to our own makeup is not dangerous, but for the beginner there is little way to know whether that is the case, and if it is a frequency to which we are not harmonized, it can deharmonize us with our natural frequencies. This means that we run the risk of making it difficult for us to continue to recieve nourishment from our natural frequencies. This will probably not happen the very frist time you eat/exchange gifts on a foreign plane, but over time it can culminate in problems for you. For people like, apparently, yourself, your complex is probably very stable - so stable that you're having trouble moving your astral context outside of your native frequency. For others, the complex is not so stable, and sliding into other frequencies is therefore not as difficult. That stability is not static - it can change over time, and is more or less stable at other times depending on a variety of local and internal factors.

The other reason that forming such connections can be dangerous is that until you have progressed to the point that you can more consciously orchestrate changes to your astral substructure, you may not be able to shake those connections if they turn out to be harmful.

But what harm can it cause, really? This question has to be answered by an understanding of what our astral structure and substructure do for us in our daily lives, and what they are in and out of context to the rest. If it were, for instance, gone, or unable to return to synchronization with the rest of the complex, how would it affect our life?

The astral body is that through which we recieve Inspiration. Our physical body carries out actions in the physical world; our Psychic body is our processor which interprets between the spiritual body (of which the astral body is a specific component) and the physical body, turning experience into knowledge, and giving the spiritual body access to the destructured essence of that knowledge. Transversely, the psychic body also recieves unstructured essences from our spiritual body, and translates it into physically significant information. The spiritual body in general serves to give impetus and purpose to our total complex, each of its parts operating its own subroutine that is connected contextually to the whole. It is usually associated with fire for this reason - it is the force behind our complex, the instigation, and the inspiration.

Without getting too deeply into general substructure, the Spiritual body is composed of principle substructures including the Astral Body, which correlates and is most closely connected to the Subconscious of the Psychic body, and the Endocrine Glands of the Physical body. Each of the Bodies has it's own complex, and astral travel does not separate the Astral body as completely from it's local complex as it does from the total whole of Mind/Body/Spirit. It remains more or less in context with the spiritual body through the 'silver cord' as it is generally called - a sympathetic resonance to our own specific spiritual structure. That sympathy cannot be broken easily - it probably will not happen in your experience of astral travel regardless of what you encounter; it can be broken, but usually on purpose and that is another subject all together.

However, if your astral body is altered so that it is no longer in harmony with the rest of your complex, then while it will retain it's natural sympathetic connection to the spiritual complex, its influence will no longer be positive. This can create subconscious turmoil, which will result then in endocrine dysfunction. That may be hyper-function or hypo-function depending on what kind of connection is made. This happens because the role that the astral body plays for us is, as I said, inspiration. As a whole, we would consider the role of our spirit to be one of Intuition, the general baseline sense of what we should do, what we need for ourselves, what our context is to the world around us, on a primal instinctive silent level.

When we isolate just the role of the Astral body in that intuition, it is our line to the vast store of experience, destructured information, archetypal super-structures, unmanifest potentialities, and their associated currents. Without it's influence, our spiritual body can only supply us with an unfocused drive to accomplish, to connect, but with no inspiration as to how, or to what. Its as though the boss came into your office and said, "Work!" but didn't give you a task and didn't train you in the first place. Or perhaps more aptly, as though he simply stood in your cubicle door staring you down expecting something but not saying what.

When in harmony, the inspirational influence of the Astral body generates creativity, directional purpose, intuitional insights, and with practice, access to that store of Astral Information and Archetypal Currents. When out of harmony all of that becomes skewed. We cannot interpret properly what we are getting from our astral body - our inspirational lens becomes warped and we veer off course. First the subconscious mind is affected, assimilating inspired material that does not correlated with the other material already there, and creating erroneous connections in order to make the puzzle fit the piece, as it were, rather than finding the proper place of a clean piece; as a result the mind becomes confused and psychic turmoil results which can manifest as actual confusion, or a loss of faith, a twisting of one's sense of purpose and direction, even whole paradigm shifts made in light of false or corrupted inspiration. The body is affected later after the effect filters across the bridge of the psychic body, causing the endocrine system to act up, creating emotional imbalances in the physical body (emotion is wholly physical and is the physical interpretation of psychic and, by extension, spiritual states of resonance), and in the extreme, even inducing significant brain imbalances that could lead to neurosis and psychosis. The experience of the body is then recorded and interpreted by the psychic body, feeds back to the spiritual body, etc., and it becomes a cycle.

THAT is why you should not eat anything from a foreign plane, or accept or exchange gifts with anything/anyone you meet there. The exception is if you are taken to a plane by a personal guide of some sort like a spiritual adept who has taken you on as a student or your bona fide HGA or Spirit Guide - these kinds of guides will take you to higher frequency planes which are in harmony with your complex, and making connections to those places will benefit you by giving you a connection to higher currents of inspiration and increasing the overall strength of your endocrine/subconscious/astral communication through higher frequency harmonics (more information is shared in higher frequency systems between discrete harmonic frequencies).

I hope that helps explain.

peace

PS: Death dissolves the intersection of physical/psychic/spiritual potential that we call time/space. The dead that you encounter on the astral are only the astral components of those that have died - the record of their incarnate experience manifested according to their state at the time of death, as raw information. They are not the 'true dead' you could say, although they can seem very much like it. They cannot record new information or be altered in any real way, although they can converse. By contrast the 'true dead' or the souls of those who have died, remain dynamic.

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Sep 20 2009, 08:50 AM


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post Sep 20 2009, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE
Without it's influence, our spiritual body can only supply us with an unfocused drive to accomplish, to connect, but with no inspiration as to how, or to what. Its as though the boss came into your office and said, "Work!" but didn't give you a task and didn't train you in the first place. Or perhaps more aptly, as though he simply stood in your cubicle door staring you down expecting something but not saying what.

When in harmony, the inspirational influence of the Astral body generates creativity, directional purpose, intuitional insights, and with practice, access to that store of Astral Information and Archetypal Currents. When out of harmony all of that becomes skewed. We cannot interpret properly what we are getting from our astral body - our inspirational lens becomes warped and we veer off course. First the subconscious mind is affected, assimilating inspired material that does not correlated with the other material already there, and creating erroneous connections in order to make the puzzle fit the piece, as it were, rather than finding the proper place of a clean piece; as a result the mind becomes confused and psychic turmoil results which can manifest as actual confusion, or a loss of faith, a twisting of one's sense of purpose and direction, even whole paradigm shifts made in light of false or corrupted inspiration.

Like a Dark Night of the Soul, for instance, Hmm? You don't say... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Lighten.gif)

QUOTE
The body is affected later after the effect filters across the bridge of the psychic body, causing the endocrine system to act up, creating emotional imbalances in the physical body (emotion is wholly physical and is the physical interpretation of psychic and, by extension, spiritual states of resonance), and in the extreme, even inducing significant brain imbalances that could lead to neurosis and psychosis.

If I am right, including, but not limited to, extreme weight gain, depression, generalized lack of interest in life, delusional thinking, feelings of isolation, lack of coherent expression...

QUOTE
The experience of the body is then recorded and interpreted by the psychic body, feeds back to the spiritual body, etc., and it becomes a cycle.

...and the cycle becomes hard to break. Possibly for years. Hmmm... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

QUOTE
The exception is if you are taken to a plane by a personal guide of some sort like a spiritual adept who has taken you on as a student or your bona fide HGA or Spirit Guide - these kinds of guides will take you to higher frequency planes which are in harmony with your complex, and making connections to those places will benefit you by giving you a connection to higher currents of inspiration and increasing the overall strength of your endocrine/subconscious/astral communication through higher frequency harmonics (more information is shared in higher frequency systems between discrete harmonic frequencies).

Similar to the stories of the magical Shewbread of Life Immortality, how the Gods had a formulae to create this bread, and consuming it brought about miraculous results. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif) Perhaps not of this plane, but of going on a spirit journey, consuming it there, and having the effect transpire this way, that the traveler's endocrine system becomes augmented... now it makes sense!

QUOTE
I hope that helps explain.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/respect.gif)
I think you cannot begin to comprehend exactly how helpful I find your post. Perhaps someday it will dawn on you that you helped me find exactly what I was looking for, when I least expected it. But enough cryptic speak for now.

Thank you for helping me to understand the mechanics behind partaking of astral energies, Vagrant.

Coyote, after Vagrant's post, everything has been made clear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif) I wasn't trying to upset you!!

Best Wishes, everyone!

-Xeno


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-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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Dancing Coyote
post Sep 20 2009, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Sep 20 2009, 09:45 AM) *

Coyote, Xenomancer is a Gemini and has to have a framework that - by any definition - is systematic, logical, and structural in order to grasp it thoroughly. To a large degree, I am the same way.

Let me try to reinterpret what Coyote is saying in Gemini-speak.

We've already discussed at some point elsewhere the nature of Perspective and Consciousness I believe - in brief your awareness is a point of perception which can inhabit anything to which you have a strong enough connection, starting of course with your own body, mind, and spirit in all of it's components; one of which is the astral body.

Physical food nourishes this complex because all physical things are intersections of Physical, Psychic, and Spiritual potentialities. Some foods to a greater degree than others in terms of quality. In the physical world, as Coyote said, food keeps us in this world - if we don't eat, and have not the sufficient power to sustain ourselves without, then our complex is not supported and decays (we die). This is part of the reason that fasting is one method of entering into spiritual ordeals, initiations, etc. - because the lack of physical nourishment loosens the bond that holds our complex together and we can more fully enter into spiritual dimensions (under the guidance of a spiritual adept, to minimize the danger of such an ordeal).

When we shunt our awareness into an astral vehicle, that element of our complex which already exists there, and move it out of sych with our current physical (and even psychic) potentiality, we have to be careful that we don't form unwanted connections to planes alien to our typical makeup. If we eat something, take a gift, make some exchange with some part of that foreign plane, a connection can be established that thereafter 'tugs' at our previously stable complex. The danger is that until we are experienced enough to discover it, we don't necessarily know where that plane is relative to our own natural 'environ': forming connections with beneficial planes which are harmonized to our own makeup is not dangerous, but for the beginner there is little way to know whether that is the case, and if it is a frequency to which we are not harmonized, it can deharmonize us with our natural frequencies. This means that we run the risk of making it difficult for us to continue to recieve nourishment from our natural frequencies. This will probably not happen the very frist time you eat/exchange gifts on a foreign plane, but over time it can culminate in problems for you. For people like, apparently, yourself, your complex is probably very stable - so stable that you're having trouble moving your astral context outside of your native frequency. For others, the complex is not so stable, and sliding into other frequencies is therefore not as difficult. That stability is not static - it can change over time, and is more or less stable at other times depending on a variety of local and internal factors.

The other reason that forming such connections can be dangerous is that until you have progressed to the point that you can more consciously orchestrate changes to your astral substructure, you may not be able to shake those connections if they turn out to be harmful.

But what harm can it cause, really? This question has to be answered by an understanding of what our astral structure and substructure do for us in our daily lives, and what they are in and out of context to the rest. If it were, for instance, gone, or unable to return to synchronization with the rest of the complex, how would it affect our life?

The astral body is that through which we recieve Inspiration. Our physical body carries out actions in the physical world; our Psychic body is our processor which interprets between the spiritual body (of which the astral body is a specific component) and the physical body, turning experience into knowledge, and giving the spiritual body access to the destructured essence of that knowledge. Transversely, the psychic body also recieves unstructured essences from our spiritual body, and translates it into physically significant information. The spiritual body in general serves to give impetus and purpose to our total complex, each of its parts operating its own subroutine that is connected contextually to the whole. It is usually associated with fire for this reason - it is the force behind our complex, the instigation, and the inspiration.

Without getting too deeply into general substructure, the Spiritual body is composed of principle substructures including the Astral Body, which correlates and is most closely connected to the Subconscious of the Psychic body, and the Endocrine Glands of the Physical body. Each of the Bodies has it's own complex, and astral travel does not separate the Astral body as completely from it's local complex as it does from the total whole of Mind/Body/Spirit. It remains more or less in context with the spiritual body through the 'silver cord' as it is generally called - a sympathetic resonance to our own specific spiritual structure. That sympathy cannot be broken easily - it probably will not happen in your experience of astral travel regardless of what you encounter; it can be broken, but usually on purpose and that is another subject all together.

However, if your astral body is altered so that it is no longer in harmony with the rest of your complex, then while it will retain it's natural sympathetic connection to the spiritual complex, its influence will no longer be positive. This can create subconscious turmoil, which will result then in endocrine dysfunction. That may be hyper-function or hypo-function depending on what kind of connection is made. This happens because the role that the astral body plays for us is, as I said, inspiration. As a whole, we would consider the role of our spirit to be one of Intuition, the general baseline sense of what we should do, what we need for ourselves, what our context is to the world around us, on a primal instinctive silent level.

When we isolate just the role of the Astral body in that intuition, it is our line to the vast store of experience, destructured information, archetypal super-structures, unmanifest potentialities, and their associated currents. Without it's influence, our spiritual body can only supply us with an unfocused drive to accomplish, to connect, but with no inspiration as to how, or to what. Its as though the boss came into your office and said, "Work!" but didn't give you a task and didn't train you in the first place. Or perhaps more aptly, as though he simply stood in your cubicle door staring you down expecting something but not saying what.

When in harmony, the inspirational influence of the Astral body generates creativity, directional purpose, intuitional insights, and with practice, access to that store of Astral Information and Archetypal Currents. When out of harmony all of that becomes skewed. We cannot interpret properly what we are getting from our astral body - our inspirational lens becomes warped and we veer off course. First the subconscious mind is affected, assimilating inspired material that does not correlated with the other material already there, and creating erroneous connections in order to make the puzzle fit the piece, as it were, rather than finding the proper place of a clean piece; as a result the mind becomes confused and psychic turmoil results which can manifest as actual confusion, or a loss of faith, a twisting of one's sense of purpose and direction, even whole paradigm shifts made in light of false or corrupted inspiration. The body is affected later after the effect filters across the bridge of the psychic body, causing the endocrine system to act up, creating emotional imbalances in the physical body (emotion is wholly physical and is the physical interpretation of psychic and, by extension, spiritual states of resonance), and in the extreme, even inducing significant brain imbalances that could lead to neurosis and psychosis. The experience of the body is then recorded and interpreted by the psychic body, feeds back to the spiritual body, etc., and it becomes a cycle.

THAT is why you should not eat anything from a foreign plane, or accept or exchange gifts with anything/anyone you meet there. The exception is if you are taken to a plane by a personal guide of some sort like a spiritual adept who has taken you on as a student or your bona fide HGA or Spirit Guide - these kinds of guides will take you to higher frequency planes which are in harmony with your complex, and making connections to those places will benefit you by giving you a connection to higher currents of inspiration and increasing the overall strength of your endocrine/subconscious/astral communication through higher frequency harmonics (more information is shared in higher frequency systems between discrete harmonic frequencies).

I hope that helps explain.

peace

PS: Death dissolves the intersection of physical/psychic/spiritual potential that we call time/space. The dead that you encounter on the astral are only the astral components of those that have died - the record of their incarnate experience manifested according to their state at the time of death, as raw information. They are not the 'true dead' you could say, although they can seem very much like it. They cannot record new information or be altered in any real way, although they can converse. By contrast the 'true dead' or the souls of those who have died, remain dynamic.


Thank you very much. As a Pisces I don't always understand a person's needs when in written form.


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"Any sufficiently advanced form of magick will appear indistinguishable from science"

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Aphrodite
post Sep 20 2009, 11:23 PM
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I'm a Libra. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohyeah.gif)

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Mchawi
post Sep 21 2009, 06:44 PM
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Yeah... got to check your charts are done in sidereal Xo is probably a taurus and aphro a virgo. Kinda peeved after spending so much on inaccurate year charts see no reason why astrologers don't put some "-onomy" sorry... accuracy into their work.

Huff.. puff...

Apologies for the crappy quote back there Dancing.c couldn't find or remember it in full...

The archetypes to be discovered and assimilated are precisely those which have inspired the basic images of ritual and mythology.  These eternal ones of the dream are not to be confused with the personality  modified symbolic figures that appear in nightmares or madness to the tormented individual.  Dream is the personalized myth.  Myth is the depersonalized dream. myth.  Myth is the depersonalized dream.--Joseph Campbel


Sounds a bit better.

Thanks for the info... tend to have meaningful dreams even lucid at times but seem to fail someplace. Is strange.

@Vagrant and Dreamer... does the opposite apply to the astral? Can a person give an object or energy to something in another realm to their own detriment? Inadvertantly creating a parasidic relationship as many would do through wrongful practice of tantra and sex magick?

Peace
M

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