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 Rulers and Elemental Associations?, Could the Chiefs be elemental in nature?
AVP
post Aug 29 2005, 02:56 PM
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Avete Omnes!

Okay everyone, please be gentle with me as I am admittedly new to the Goetia.

In my readings of the Lemegeton I have found two entries that confuse me...

QUOTE
These be the 72 Mighty Kings and Princes which King Solomon Commanded into a Vessel of Brass, together with their Legions. Of whom BELIAL, BILETH, ASMODAY, and GAAP, were Chief.

farther down the same page...
QUOTE
THESE 72 Kings be under the Power of AMAYMON, CORSON, ZIMMAY or ZIMINAIR, and GAAP, who are the Four Great Kings ruling in the Four Quarters, or Cardinal Points, viz.: East, West, North, and South, and are not to be called forth except it be upon Great Occasions...


This calls to mind several (probably dumb) questions...

Does anyone know why Gaap is listed as all of the below?
a) one of the four Chiefs,
b) a Prince serving under Amaymon,
AND
c) a Great King ruling another Quarter beside Amaymon?

The latter fact brings up another question... does anyone know why Gaap is the only Great King that has a Seal listed in the book?

Allright... now that I have my prliminary questions out of the way, lets get to the really kooky ones...

I was recently reading 21st Century Mage by J. Newcomb. One of the theories he put forth about the Four Evil Princes of the Abramelin Operation got me to thinking. He examines the Four evil princes as being manifestations of our "Elemental" fears.

Anyway, I was looking at this theory and found some kernel of truth in it.

I know, I know, I know, the Abramelin Operation and the Goetia are two completely different systems...

I was still wondering if anyone has ever noticed any elemental connections corresponding to either the 4 Chiefs, or the 4 Great Kings?

I'm really curious to see what everyone thinks...

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AVP


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"I won't say the practice can't be dangerous. However, as with anything else that involves risk, it is really a matter of education and experience.

For example, electricians aren't dropping dead by the thousands- even though the forces they work with every day are *extremely* dangerous. Meanwhile, folks who fancy themselves handy with electricty and go playing around with it unawares often get burned badly."


-- Quoting Aaron Lecht concerning the grimoires

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AVP
post Aug 29 2005, 05:00 PM
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(I know that it is bad form to be the first to answer my own post, but I just stumbled across something in my own research)

It might shed a little light on the subject of my first two questions...

QUOTE(Pseudomonarchia Daemonum)
AMAYMON king of the east, GORSON king of the south, ZIMIMAR king of the north, GOAP king and prince of the west, may be bound from the third houre, till noone, and from the ninth houre till evening.


While these are two separate texts, the fact that they deal primarily with the exact same entities cannot be ignored, and it could just be that an unclear hand is to blame for the misrepresentation of Goap as Gaap in the Solomonic Text...

Just a thought.

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"I won't say the practice can't be dangerous. However, as with anything else that involves risk, it is really a matter of education and experience.

For example, electricians aren't dropping dead by the thousands- even though the forces they work with every day are *extremely* dangerous. Meanwhile, folks who fancy themselves handy with electricty and go playing around with it unawares often get burned badly."


-- Quoting Aaron Lecht concerning the grimoires

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Athena
post Aug 30 2005, 01:33 PM
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THere are elemental directions for the kings in the Abramelin book.
If you want a nice handy list of the Goetia spirits according to direction, do a search for the dark lodge Goetia directions pdf. It is probably in the library section at sacred-magick.com btw. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Athena


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AVP
post Aug 30 2005, 06:34 PM
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Many Thanks Athena!!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thankyou.gif)
That is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

I am quickly becoming familiar with the Spirits and their associations from the Abramelin book, but I am also feeling a keen interest in studying the Goetia along side it. I may be waaaay off track studying the two side by side, but if I am... I'll find out soon enough. LOL

Thanks Again!
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This post has been edited by AVP: Aug 30 2005, 06:44 PM


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"I won't say the practice can't be dangerous. However, as with anything else that involves risk, it is really a matter of education and experience.

For example, electricians aren't dropping dead by the thousands- even though the forces they work with every day are *extremely* dangerous. Meanwhile, folks who fancy themselves handy with electricty and go playing around with it unawares often get burned badly."


-- Quoting Aaron Lecht concerning the grimoires

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QUAKESTARS
post Mar 10 2012, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE(AVP @ Aug 29 2005, 03:56 PM) *

Avete Omnes!

Okay everyone, please be gentle with me as I am admittedly new to the Goetia.

In my readings of the Lemegeton I have found two entries that confuse me...


farther down the same page...
This calls to mind several (probably dumb) questions...

Does anyone know why Gaap is listed as all of the below?
a) one of the four Chiefs,
b) a Prince serving under Amaymon,
AND
c) a Great King ruling another Quarter beside Amaymon?

The latter fact brings up another question... does anyone know why Gaap is the only Great King that has a Seal listed in the book?

Allright... now that I have my prliminary questions out of the way, lets get to the really kooky ones...

I was recently reading 21st Century Mage by J. Newcomb. One of the theories he put forth about the Four Evil Princes of the Abramelin Operation got me to thinking. He examines the Four evil princes as being manifestations of our "Elemental" fears.

Anyway, I was looking at this theory and found some kernel of truth in it.

I know, I know, I know, the Abramelin Operation and the Goetia are two completely different systems...

I was still wondering if anyone has ever noticed any elemental connections corresponding to either the 4 Chiefs, or the 4 Great Kings?

I'm really curious to see what everyone thinks...

LVX
AVP

Yesterday I realized somebody was trying to "steal" my usual familiar, Flauros, so I said a quick invocation to Gaap. Problem fixed.
If I have trouble with Flauros I can invocate Goap and get my problems fixed. Now somebody has started mixing Goap (lord of fire elementals) and Gaap (one of the great sages).
I have learned that Management on this site does not like me to give explicit instructions. In my experience after a few summonings by whatever method the Goetia remember you and you can probably drop most of the summoning, they know you and you know them and it is all favours done In-house. Realize nobody quite owns the patent on being stupid, and the main test of knowledge is application. If it doesn't work find out and fix the problem. You do need to get the names right if what you have to do is exorcise a ghost, for that you politely but resolutely invocate Amaymon, Gorson, Goap, and Ziminiar, (it frustrates me not to go into details by the way) now having got the "team" warmed up you have one to go to for Bael, a stupid nuisance ghost who won't leave the living alone can be given accommodation Down There courtesy of Bael.. Focus on the application, whether you do summoning to visible or a submissive invocation as I do, you meet "The Boys from Below" and very soon it is argy-bargy and helping a club member and doing each other favours. It can get to the point of you just thinking of the favour and it immediately happens. Your screw up is in some authors confusing Goap and Gaap. Work with each of them and you soon get the idea. Do not trust the often carelessly slung opinions of half literate and impractical authors. Magick has a lot in common with cleaning the toilet. If the job is done wrong you can likely see it and smell it. You got an "ouch" and want help RIGHT NOW. You summon and the thing gets fixed. As you get more useful things start not exactly leaving you alone but not bothering you for long. Magick and Hardware Stores are really the same place; where you go to get what you need to fix things. Now having got Goap off the map back to Gaap; a friendly and rather cynical guy with a sly sense of humour, can instantly get you heaps of favours, I need to find a list and see if he is under Amaymon; yes he is. So he is an Air Elemental. By contrast Goap is lord over Fire Elementals. The other really handy thing to know about Gaap is when a witch tries to steal your familiar Gaap can fix it up for you. Your familiar becomes like your favourite alarm clock or more and losing your familiar can totally spoil your reality. Gaap is really popular Down There so we could suspect he is a Gemini. Stop reading the Gossip columns about these friendly and useful beings and start trading favours with them. By developing an interaction with Goetia in modern times you are helping everybody as you become an instrument at least as useful as a fire extinguisher to cope with emergencies. It has been ages since I summoned Gaap unofficially. He is one very nice guy and if invoked will make you feel like you just lost 40kg weight. Goap if invoked will take you into trance and focus on your visualization technique. Maybe that quick lesson off Goap could be why I now get the favours before I manage to invoke. THERE ARE SEVERE PENALTIES FOR IMPROPER USE OF THESE HIGH BEINGS. I am told the only reason I get away with my methods is because I always DO SUBMISSIVE INVOCATIONS. I set out to fully co-operate and that makes the one summoned ambitious. Every morning with some good performance I resolve to give Flauros submissions for one hour. You got to learn it, live it, work it, and help with it. Magic reminds me of one other word; MASSAGE. You get the knots and kinks out and make somebody feel great.


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