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 The God Of Wisdom
greenlantern153
post Jul 16 2013, 04:47 AM
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After much introspection, thought and meditation, I've come to the conclusion that wisdom is the highest virtue. I define wisdom as knowledge of what is most beneficial / correct / effective in a particular situation. I realize there are other definitions, but this one suits my thinking best.

Regardless of whether or not you agree (that wisdom is the highest virtue), what Spirit or God would you suggest working with if you wanted to tap into wisdom?

Thanks


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Jul 21 2013, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE(Green Lantern @ Jul 16 2013, 06:47 AM) *

After much introspection, thought and meditation, I've come to the conclusion that wisdom is the highest virtue. I define wisdom as knowledge of what is most beneficial / correct / effective in a particular situation. I realize there are other definitions, but this one suits my thinking best.

Regardless of whether or not you agree (that wisdom is the highest virtue), what Spirit or God would you suggest working with if you wanted to tap into wisdom?

Thanks


Different ways to go about this.

Classical gods related to wisdom are Odin, Thoth/Tehuti, Hermes-Thoth... I know this list is longer but those are the first handful that come to mind. There are goddesses as well, but I'm pretty polarized.

Thing is, all gods and goddesses relate to wisdom... the wisdom of conflict, the wisdom of knowledge, the wisdom of agriculture, love, etc... that's in a certain sense what they are, expressions of wisdom. Aries isn't just the god of War, constantly advocating conflict and agression - he is the God of the Wisdom of War - when and how to engage conflict, and why, and of understanding its nature and outcome. What is and isn't actually conflict, and how to recognize these things, and act appropriately upon that knowledge.

There's no saying, however, that you can't approach the raw spirit of wisdom itself. Every concept that you can encapsulate is present in the spiritual world - itself unstructured except that which we impose upon it through observation and desire - as an intelligence or presence. If you can focus on the concept itself, then you can reach out and make contact. In a way, this is the most natural form of spiritual communication, because what comes forth is that which is appropriate to your corresponding need/desire. Not more, and not less.

Although I always applaud the seeking out of meaning through contemplation, it would be worthwhile to read the many ways in which the venerable and accomplished masters of the ages have written about the nature of wisdom. Their perspectives can be invaluable, if you haven't appraised them already. I don't disagree with your assessment though, however to me defining wisdom as a 'knowledge' of anything is defining it according to its precursor. That is, knowledge precedes wisdom, it seems to me, and wisdom itself is not knowledge; but the product of knowledge well digested.

peace


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greenlantern153
post Jul 23 2013, 06:22 AM
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I had a lucid dream a few nights back. In it, a trusted friend of mine came to me and gave me a bag full of toy animals, like little models. He told me to choose a spirit animal as a totem. Afterwards, I read an article on wikipedia about totems and found this interesting definition: "that from which I draw my purpose, meaning, and being", aside from also being representational emblems for clans in north american tribes through which they identified their ancestry. I hardly spent 5 minutes thinking about what my totem might be when my thoughts went straight to Griffin. Are there any Deities linked to the Griffin or correspondences that you know of? Any tips on the spirit of the Griffin in general? Also, can I expect continued workings with it to affect my instincts? (By which I mean, will I begin to instinctively act with Griffin-like characteristics, which if I understood correctly, include things like wisdom, strength, loyalty, fierceness?)

Thanks for your responses VD, appreciate them.

This post has been edited by Green Lantern: Jul 23 2013, 06:23 AM


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greenlantern153
post Jul 23 2013, 10:08 AM
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Just to be clear, I'm not going to adopt the Griffin as my totem just yet. I would like to interact with it first and meditate on it.


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Jul 23 2013, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE(Green Lantern @ Jul 23 2013, 12:08 PM) *

Just to be clear, I'm not going to adopt the Griffin as my totem just yet. I would like to interact with it first and meditate on it.


Mmmm, tough to say. Mythological creatures as totems is a pretty recent idea. Wisdom of the animal spirits can be gained largely from watching them, understanding the animal itself, it's habits, how it survives, etc. These things become the basis for contemplation. You might consider the natures of both eagles and lions?

Contemplation of any given idea, though, is as simple as sitting down quietly somewhere and allowing your mind to wander, let it spiral downward into the unconscious, and allowing the material there to 'coagulate' you might say, around the point of focus, in this case, the concept of the griffin.

To have a mythological animal as a potential totem, to me, first suggests more of an interest in stories than in the actual world. What I mean is that, philosophically, it could indicate more of an interest in theory than practice, or in the perception of the world rather than the world itself. If that makes sense. The man who reads about the world, rather than going out and exploring it.

peace


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greenlantern153
post Jul 24 2013, 01:05 AM
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QUOTE
Contemplation of any given idea, though, is as simple as sitting down quietly somewhere and allowing your mind to wander, let it spiral downward into the unconscious, and allowing the material there to 'coagulate' you might say, around the point of focus, in this case, the concept of the griffin.


That's more or less what I'm going for. I think that's the best approach to something that hasn't been encountered before. After that comes more involved workings.

QUOTE
To have a mythological animal as a potential totem, to me, first suggests more of an interest in stories than in the actual world. What I mean is that, philosophically, it could indicate more of an interest in theory than practice, or in the perception of the world rather than the world itself. If that makes sense. The man who reads about the world, rather than going out and exploring it.


Don't you think you may be assuming a bit too much? I'll admit that I'm a bit naive to the concept of totems and spirit animals, what they mean, and how they interact with us spiritually. But hey, I'm going to find out.


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Jul 24 2013, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(Green Lantern @ Jul 24 2013, 03:05 AM) *

Don't you think you may be assuming a bit too much? I'll admit that I'm a bit naive to the concept of totems and spirit animals, what they mean, and how they interact with us spiritually. But hey, I'm going to find out.


Possibly, but consider the symbolism present in the nature of the experience. Real animals represent actual, present, ongoing experience in the real world. They occupy a place in the scheme of things, they are a working part of the system. An actual cog in the machine, if you will. Whereas mythological creatures are not actually present in that system, but exist only through the expressions they have in the imagination; in stories. If your spirit animal, if that is the case here, is an imaginary creature, then what does that say about the nature of your spirit?

Having an interest in stories and in theory above the actual experience - the theory of the machine rather than the cogs - isn't a judgement against you or about you. Its a configuration. There's a spirit of everything, so I've not a shred of doubt there's a Griffin spirit present in the psychic and spiritual worlds. Whatever qualities it might house, cunning, courage, valor, nobility, etc., it houses because it has been manufactured by human idealization. But in looking at the nature of these things and how they are expressed both in us and in the world around us, it isn't just the symbol itself that you consider in isolation. Nothing is isolated, everything exists in context, and that context is part of it's nature. You can't just pull a cog out of the machine to know how it works, you have to look at what it does in the machine.

There are dreamers, storytellers, idealists, and such, who are all just as valuable to the human spirit as the 'practical' folks who get their hands dirty in the daily grind.

You'll find out regardless in your own way and in your own time. These are just my own observations and contemplations.

peace


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☞Tomber☜
post Jul 29 2013, 08:41 PM
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Well I like wisdom a lot and think the best way to go about getting some is to put your self in foreign settings, while studying material like books, and then talking about it with friends over coffee or at a bar. I guess it would be important to firstly make sure you really want the thing people mean by wisdom. I think we share a similar feeling of what it is but if you try to define that common word and feeling, then maybe you're looking to get something out of the word wisdom that would be better explained by a different term. Your definition seems more like pragmatism or a whole sale bundle deal on improving all virtues, whatever those might be.

I've always wondered about getting wisdom from a spirit. Seems sketchy because you would really have to trust it to take care of you. Having a guide is different than just asking for wisdom though. Though an animal, even mythical animal, doesn't seem like a good symbol for wisdom. I feel like a human would be a more appropriate shape, like Gemini. But vagrant would know more about the history and application of those symbols and effectiveness.

Regardless you can always ditch the term and the definition together and just sniff out the route your feelings are leading you. That's probably more what you're going for here.


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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greenlantern153
post Aug 7 2013, 04:36 AM
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QUOTE
Your definition seems more like pragmatism or a whole sale bundle deal on improving all virtues, whatever those might be.


Yeah I know. I was purposefully looking for a definition of wisdom that would be as pragmatic as possible, since there is a lot of "sacred" knowledge out there that is no more useful than a simple sigil. I'm not trying to throw out the mystery and depth of hidden knowledge though, I'm just looking for the most useful knowledge first and labeling that as wisdom.

QUOTE
There are dreamers, storytellers, idealists, and such, who are all just as valuable to the human spirit as the 'practical' folks who get their hands dirty in the daily grind.


In hindsight, I think my posts in this thread reflect more on how naive I am to magick and spiritual concepts at this stage. Remember, I was only introduced to my first few magickal texts at the beginning of this year, so I'm very much still a beginner, in terms of both experience and knowledge, and the mindset that those cultivate in a practitioner. I think I should be slower to post next time. But, I'm definitely into the actual practice, not just the theory and the legends. I have been getting some successful results, hopefully on par with what you would expect from a beginner. I think what's really holding me back at this stage is that there isn't an order or group I can join. There is an OTO here, but it's about a 100km away from me. On top of that, I'm the only practicing magician I know. So I don't really have someone I can discuss magickal concepts with over coffee. Practicing in isolation kind of sucks.


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fatherjhon
post Aug 7 2013, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(Green Lantern @ Aug 7 2013, 06:36 AM) *

I think I should be slower to post next time. But, I'm definitely into the actual practice, not just the theory and the legends. I have been getting some successful results, hopefully on par with what you would expect from a beginner. I think what's really holding me back at this stage is that there isn't an order or group I can join. There is an OTO here, but it's about a 100km away from me. On top of that, I'm the only practicing magician I know. So I don't really have someone I can discuss magickal concepts with over coffee. Practicing in isolation kind of sucks.


No no! Post as you think of questions. You hit an interesting topic on the head this time, next time you might get another.

Aside from posting hear I talk to most everyone about magick. Magick is largely a mater of recognizing a spiritual, or at least another, dimension to life one can interface with, then thinking real real hard about it. So long as you talk about the substance rather than the terminology used to describe it, most people with a spiritual leaning and half a brain are willing to talk frankly. The hardest part is finding ways to say things about magick without the short hand. Walk up to someone and babble about sigils is going to get you a cold shoulder. In the middle of a conversation on something else start talking about intent and fine tuning what you want. Admittedly somethings are easier than others. The grimoires and classical black books are harder but the authors know that they would need to hide from others and likely would not be able to pass on their knowledge in person. The Key and other books like it contain everything you need.

QUOTE

Yeah I know. I was purposefully looking for a definition of wisdom that would be as pragmatic as possible, I'm just looking for the most useful knowledge first and labeling that as wisdom.


Personal experience is the most pragmatic form of wisdom because its lived and internalized. If you want to work with a God, the process of internalizing that wisdom is different from a spirit animal. Normally Gods make you work for it while a spirit animal will all but beat you over the head with it. If your going to use a spirit animal its good practice to make sure you do not all ready have one before you start to attract another. I have never seen a griffin but there are stories of people embodying concepts that have no physical manifestation so it might be possible. Just a mater of getting its attention.


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Cosmic consciousness is devoid of diversity; yet the universe of diversity exists in notion....
We contemplate that reality in which everything exists, to which everything belongs,
from which everything has emerged, which is the cause of everything and which is everything....
The light of [this] self-knowledge alone illumines all experiences. It shines by its own light.
This inner light appears to be outside and to illumine external objects.

-Sage Vasishtha

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Laila
post Sep 17 2013, 01:23 PM
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I think Of Toth Egyptian God He is God of wisdom (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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Mephilis
post Apr 26 2014, 05:55 AM
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Thoth is the first one that come to mind, for me.
With all his wisdom... and an ibis head.

Don't deficate on totems please. They are symbolic, as are correspondences and ritual usually. I understand the point though.


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Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
Albus Dumbledore

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