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Sacred Magick Forums _ Sorcery _ Magician, Sorcerer, Wizard?

Posted by: curi Jul 6 2006, 05:59 PM

Good evening,

This is perhaps a topic that has been mentioned quite regularly, but what in your opinion should a male practicing magic call himself? Why do some choose to call themselves "magician" instead of "wizard." Next, when should a male, or female for that matter, begin to call themselves by these different names? It is sad to think that an armchair magician is calling himself a great and powerful mage. I understand that these different names have to do a lot with your background, but I thought I'd get everyone's imput on the classification of these sorts of men and women alike. Shouldn't a woman who practices magic be considered a witch? Or shouldn't a male who does the same thing consider himself a magician? Let's keep things simple, right? There seem to always be complications that arise with the term. What do you consider yourself and why? What's your background? Any thoughts would be a very interesting read.

Sincerely,

Mr. Curi

Posted by: smasher666 Jul 6 2006, 06:17 PM

QUOTE(curi @ Jul 6 2006, 07:59 PM) *
Good evening,

This is perhaps a topic that has been mentioned quite regularly, but what in your opinion should a male practicing magic call himself? Why do some choose to call themselves "magician" instead of "wizard." Next, when should a male, or female for that matter, begin to call themselves by these different names? It is sad to think that an armchair magician is calling himself a great and powerful mage. I understand that these different names have to do a lot with your background, but I thought I'd get everyone's imput on the classification of these sorts of men and women alike. Shouldn't a woman who practices magic be considered a witch? Or shouldn't a male who does the same thing consider himself a magician? Let's keep things simple, right? There seem to always be complications that arise with the term. What do you consider yourself and why? What's your background? Any thoughts would be a very interesting read.

Sincerely,

Mr. Curi


I do Sorcery Shamanism and some Ceremonial Magick. A Wizard would not be a bad term but I like the word Priest. A woman can have any title that a man could. She could be a Sorcereress. As a man is a Shaman so she could be a Shamaness. I think Wizard is a title without gender. At least I have never heard anyone call thier self a Wizardess. So a female Wizard would still be a Wizard.

Posted by: bym Jul 6 2006, 07:46 PM

Perhaps we are placing abit too much emphasis on titles. They invariably are used to 'pigeonhole' one and we run imto the danger of molding ourselves to the title (or viceversa). In the long run people are labelled by their peers with or without help. When I was younger titles meant alot more to me than they do now. Pick one or wait until one picks you, just live your life in the best way you know how. laugh.gif

Posted by: Vagrant Dreamer Jul 6 2006, 10:36 PM

QUOTE(bym @ Jul 6 2006, 09:46 PM) *
Perhaps we are placing abit too much emphasis on titles. They invariably are used to 'pigeonhole' one and we run imto the danger of molding ourselves to the title (or viceversa). In the long run people are labelled by their peers with or without help. When I was younger titles meant alot more to me than they do now. Pick one or wait until one picks you, just live your life in the best way you know how. laugh.gif


Also, they all tend to mean different things to different people. My peers generally use all of the titles interchangably just to refer to 'a person who does magick', largely dependent on the most recent 'theme' of discussion - if we're discussing witchcraft, everyone's a witch, if we're discussing sorcerery, everyone's a sorcerer... But, if you tell ten people you're a sorcerer - which is something you very rarely have any reason to say - then they may all think something different.

If someone asks, I generally just reply, "I'm an occultist." or "I have an affinity for the occult."

All it really does is tell people that you are into some kind of magick, or that you apparently believe in it anyway, or at least want to. To say 'sorcerer' or 'shaman' or 'mage' - mostly buzz words that catch everyone's interest. Less is more...

peace

Posted by: Khenti_Amenti Jul 8 2006, 03:23 PM

At the same time, for the Egyptians names where a part of the soul and knowing someones or something true name meant having some power over him or it.
In Ceremonial Magick Orders titles often have a highly symbolic meaning wich spills over in the actual Magick and is a part of the Initiation.

I myself call myself by any of the titles if i use any.

The etymology of the titles is rather interessting too.

Magician, Mage- Persian priest called "Magi". *Funny enough not actually Magicians.

Sorcerer- From Latin "Sors", Fate.

Warlock- Disputed, either from "Vaer loega", oath breaker. a reason for many Witches to not aprove of the title for a male Witch.
Silly ofcouse since "Pagan" and many other words have also been used in a deregatory meaning.
Could also be from "Varda lockur", Spirit caller.

Hexe- Propably from someone outside the hedge (safe territory).

Hedgewitch- as above. The hedge surounding the village or town is "safe", the witch travels outside it (out of the known universe so to speak).

Wicca- Frm the same root as to wick. The Witch folds or wicks reality. Knotmagick comes to mind.
Female version is Wicce.

Wizard, Wizzard- From the word "wiz", wise.

Witta- from "wit", to know.

There are a few more but their not really apliceable to the western form of mystery or only to certain cultures within it.

Posted by: daemon_reign Jan 3 2007, 09:09 PM

I like the name sorcerer the best
I consider a witch or wizard to do magick by casting spells and a sorcerer to do magick by calling on the aid of spirits
plus i just like the way it sounds.

Posted by: daemon_reign Jan 3 2007, 09:15 PM

I think warlock has a nice ring to it.
It depends on what you do someone could call the self a necromancer.
whatever glove fits the hand i guess.

Posted by: TiacSway Jan 3 2007, 11:14 PM

I refer to myself as a "witch" personally.

I've never really taken much time to think why i would call myself a "witch" instead of anything else. I guess it just fit becuase i practice "withcraft".

.02

Tiac

Posted by: Isaiah Jan 4 2007, 07:06 AM

I believe the original question was answered at length already, so I guess I'll answer the secondary one.

Occultist, primarily Black Magician, Necromancer, Sorcerer, and Chaote.

I'd also like to add that Black Magic as it is titled is mostly a misnomer, in most cultures magic by colors referred to "black" as protection magic.

And that "Necromancer" descends from "Nekros" - Greek for Corpse, and "Manteia" - Greek for Prophecy.

Posted by: DeathStalker Jan 4 2007, 07:28 AM

It's really a hard question, if I were to call myself anything I'd have a million titles.

As far as "Witch" and "Sorceror" are concerned, I'd be more inclined to call myself as a Sorceror, by universal definition.

My personal label is....

(myself).

Posted by: Ailsa Jan 4 2007, 09:29 AM

I tend to think of myself as a magician, as I practice magick eclectically. While I consider my practices spiritual, I do not subscribe to a specific theology or dogma. Also, I do not think a separate designation is required to specify sex.

As regards the term witch, I tend to associate this with individuals, both male and female, who practice Wicca or have similar religious practices. I do realize that not all Wiccans prefer this designation, and some who are not Wiccans also prefer the term witch.

Overall, I have no qualms with whatever term an individual opts to use to describe themselves, even if their definition of that term differs from mine. In my opinion, the terms are simply an effort to describe something, and like many terms, there is often a lack of consensus.

Generally, I find that because occult designations are so ambiguous, by themselves, they frequently cannot be relied upon to accurately portray an individual or their interests.

Ailsa smile.gif

Posted by: A_Smoking_Fox Jan 4 2007, 10:54 AM

i don't use a name for myself. I used to call me a million of things, depending on what subject i was studying at that time.
First i was a wicca, or witch, when i was practising mainly wicca.
When i was mainly doing ceremonial magick i called myself a ceremonial mage.
Then i was a chaote, when my interest shifted towards that
When my focus moved to taoism and other eastern philosophies, i called myself a taoist.
Then, when i focused more mainly on buddhism, i was a buddhist.

Now i just am, and dont't care one bit about what title i have.
If my friends ask about my philosohpies, i say that i am a buddhist, because people seem to easily accept buddhism as an alternative faith.
Its just a lie, although i focus highly on enlightenment in my practises, but its to ease their mind and to avoid conversations they or i do not want having.

Posted by: Thorn Jan 4 2007, 07:14 PM

I guess generally I go by 'witch' if I'm in a position where a title is needed, but I find that everyone sees certain titles like witch, sorcerer, shaman, whatever differently. So for the most part I just say I'm 'magickally inclined' and leave it at that:P

Posted by: matt Jan 6 2007, 10:13 PM

i was wondering if you could give me some insight on how to get my root hold in magick i dont have any one that could give me any help i read some of your post and you seem to be well educated in the arts and just thought you might be able to tell me what i need to get started such as suppliers and maybe some stuff that would be good reading
thanx

Posted by: WyrdScience Jan 7 2007, 05:50 PM

I am who I am.

Thats all that i really need to know. I am myself. I am me. I just am. *shrug*

But if I could actually have a title, people would call me either a "Sage" or "Sensei"

blablabla.gif

Posted by: LordArthur Jan 11 2007, 11:35 AM

I consider myself a Magician, Mage or Omnimancer (since I practice Omnimancy). I mostly use the nomenclature of Mage for myself. I started with Norse Runes and dabbled in Enochian about 15 years ago for a year or two before going the way I went to give more background.

I'm not sure if a male/female difference in terms should matter at all, but in some magical "cultures" it seems to as it suits their needs.

I suppose names are used based on the images it gives oneself, which obviously includes their familiarity. What one calls oneself has much to do with what they want others to think about them when they hear the name. To give others the same images about themselves that they are trying to show of themselves.

The problem is, everyone has different images with different spins on them. There are no standards, partially because everyone wants THEIR standard to be standard. wink.gif An ocean of magical practitioners that can't interact well because the definitions they use for the same terms are different even though they use the same language. Sad really.

Definitions of names are too influenced by Pop Culture (either by movies or other media) who didn't really care what the original definitions were anyway, so their definitions become the new ones, which just confuses matters more. The example of Witch being a female, and a Warlock being Male in my own head comes from the TV series "Bewitched". Wiccans say that all members of their faith are witches. There are many witches that aren't wiccan. Some use the Bewitched definitions, some don't.

In the end, definitions seem to be defined by the masses, even if academia says it should be otherwise. Sometimes academia wins, but for more often it doesn't. It's kind of like trying to define what's "pagan". There is no one answer. Mage, Wizard, Witch, Warlock, etc. become umbrella terms. Best you can hope for if you want more information is for them to talk about what they do more directly. Best definition of WHEN to start calling yourself such names is when you feel its right. Without a hard definition of such terms, that's the best one can hope for.

Posted by: Kraussisus Apr 1 2007, 04:40 PM

QUOTE(LordArthur @ Jan 11 2007, 01:35 PM) *
I consider myself a Magician, Mage or Omnimancer (since I practice Omnimancy).


I'm alittle confused. From my knowledge of the suffix "-mancy", Omnimancy would mean being able to predict events from anything?

When I was little, (Some would probably still consider me little) I used to have my tiny grimoire that I made out of sewed together leaves and all my other magic tools, I would think "If dad ever found out I was a witch, he'd disown me!"
But, later, I began to dislike the name. It wasn't for what it represented or the way it sounded, it was just a spontaneous dislike.
So I tried out many different names. I stuck with "chaote" for awhile when I happened to stumble upon that particular area of magick.
But then I began to dislike that name as well.
Now, I usually just say that "magically influenced" and people call me what they want.

Posted by: LordArthur Apr 25 2007, 02:31 PM

QUOTE(Kraussisus @ Apr 1 2007, 06:40 PM) *
I'm alittle confused. From my knowledge of the suffix "-mancy", Omnimancy would mean being able to predict events from anything?


The name was derived by the more modern interpretation of "-mancy". In the original latin, you are correct, it would mean "divination by", however in the modern context the suffix -mancy is greatly expanded and includes the concept of magic. Hence "necromancy" isn't considered simply divination by the dead by most people, but a magical system involving the dead, which CAN including divination by the dead. I don't speak latin, and it's likely you don't either, so it's generally not a concern by most.

The Omni part more refers to the many "schools"/divisions of magic practiced within the system that became too numerous to put under a simplier title.

I hope that answers your question.

Posted by: Saul de Plume Apr 27 2007, 01:03 PM

I have a few different terms I use, and I usually use all of them laugh.gif

Witch-I use this is reference to Witchcraft, and by witchcraft I mean the practice of magic

Pagan/Irish Reconstructionist-I use this in reference to my religious beliefs, however when I am around close minded people I just use the term "in my religion."

So in my coven, we are Witches. We practice magic, and keep a book of spells as well as herbal remides, crystal magic, Divination etc. We may invoke a God/ess for some reason, and anyone who doesn't want to work with that god needn't come.

In my coven we have 2 Wiccan Witches, a Buddhist Witch, an Athiest Witch, a Christian Witch (Just as a note she has like a million reasons why she can still be a christian and a witch), and Me (whatever the heck I am laugh.gif)...

Posted by: Lucian Apr 27 2007, 02:24 PM

Ave

I was going back over some old topics on OccultForums and I passed by this idea again, that Wizard just means Wise person. I mean, would you go around calling yourself exceptionally wise? Just like in martial arts, if you call yourself a Master, you aren't. It is more of a title that the people around you will grace you with if you are worthy of it.

That being said, I like to be called Todd smile.gif

Stop worrying about titles and get to work!

wink.gif

Light In Extension

Posted by: Aurelius May 1 2007, 11:18 AM

From my studies ive found many terms and heres what ive found;

mage - tends towards someone who works with generaly more power

sorcerer - is more about the magic its self, usaly self motivated

wizard - someone who seeks all forms of knowlege

Posted by: beleti May 25 2007, 03:49 PM

I consider myself to be a Mage. I believe it is all up to that individuals personal preference although what sort of title they choose should compliment the path work they have chosen. As for myself I have always worked with pure energy for the most part with the main focus being manipulations with the use of Will and Intent. I however have been know to utilize herbs crystals and candles to amplify my Will and to focus my Intent. The title Mage in my impression sums up what I do.

There is no right or wrong way to use these titles it simply comes down to what you feel amplifies your actions the most efficient!!

Beleti

Posted by: The Sorceress May 30 2007, 05:53 PM

I try to avoid giving myself any sort of title.



Over time, you risk ego attachments ("Not FROM me, but THROUGH me" is how I would describe my system.)

Posted by: Eroscupidonamor Aug 21 2007, 08:43 AM

Non nobis Domine... non nobis...

Wise thought sorceress... hey that's a title! oops.gif

Posted by: Uni_Verse Aug 22 2007, 09:15 PM

Actually... there are particular associations with the names.

A Magician is a "miracle worker" of the One. Its original ties were to a practitioner of Hermetics, although in modern day it is more associate with Jewish esotericism.

They get their power from a higher source, that which unifies the all.


A Wizard is a master of the Will. A person who does not necessarily believe in a higher power.

They get their power simply through force of Will.

A Sorcerer is more akin to what most people consider a "Black Magician"

Rather than asking spirits to work with them, they force them to do so. Similar to the Wizard who utilizes their Will Power, the Sorcerer does the same - but invokes words of power as curses rather than with reverence.

Posted by: Fledermaus Oct 2 2007, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Uni_Verse @ Aug 22 2007, 10:15 PM) *
Actually... there are particular associations with the names.

A Sorcerer is more akin to what most people consider a "Black Magician"

Rather than asking spirits to work with them, they force them to do so. Similar to the Wizard who utilizes their Will Power, the Sorcerer does the same - but invokes words of power as curses rather than with reverence.


I don't agree with you on that statement. A Wizard is the "Black Magician" and a Sorcerer is one who mesmerises and is glamorous. A true sorcerer works with nature, becomes nature and is enthralled by nature.

Posted by: Uni_Verse Oct 6 2007, 05:48 AM

QUOTE("Fledermaus")
a Sorcerer is one who mesmerises and is glamorous


Sounds to me like a "Black Magician" - what is the point of a glamour? Just be yourself. smile.gif

Posted by: wizardgryphon Oct 6 2007, 04:45 PM

well, according to the ancients, the term sorcerer its different than the term wizard or magician, wizards and magians are seekers of wisdom thru magick,sorcerers are seekers of power thru magick, so I considerd myself more like a wizard or magician apprentice than a sorcerer, I also acept the term shaman or medicine man, and also there is male witches, so basically there is also female wizards, sorcerers, magicians and shamans, let me remind all that magick its an art that was made more powerful by women than men, so this terms are for both wizard.gif witch.gif wandwizard.gif we are all brothers and sisters under this great art!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Vagrant Dreamer Oct 6 2007, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(wizardgryphon @ Oct 6 2007, 06:45 PM) *
let me remind all that magick its an art that was made more powerful by women than men, so this terms are for both wizard.gif witch.gif wandwizard.gif we are all brothers and sisters under this great art!!!!!!!!!


I'll agree that we're all connected by a common field of interests, but it is impossible to back up the claim that magick was made more powerful by either women or men. Magick isn't powerful, the people who work with it are 'powerful' - as it were, anyway, really they're just strong willed and intelligent, and know how to manipulate the systems of reality to their ends. Magick is simply the application of universal law, and the Law predates manifested gender as we know it. It has nothing to do with being 'powerful.'

The differences between the official meanings of any 'title' simple come from the fact that they all originate in different cultures, who had different languages as well as different descriptions of what magick is, how it works, and what it's for. But regardless of that culture's official definition of their word for 'magick user' - whether it implies someone with spiritual power, or simply someone who utilizes occult sciences of some kind, the element that binds all of those titles together is the fact that they all simply mean, "One who uses obscure/occult means/actions to achieve spiritual/supernormal results."

Mincing words over the meaning of a particular title is pointless - if the world was one culture, the differences would mean more, and the individual titles would describe the different ways that people do magick. As it is, it's just a different cultural take on what's going on and why. Some words were even adapted by foreign cultures or conquering civilizations and used to mean something that became misunderstood as magickal when those cultures lost their foundations and were absorbed by others. If you were to work magick before people of any of the various cultures, they wouldn't call you by whatever title you have picked for yourself, they would call you by whatever they normally use, and it would mean the same thing to them. Regardless of what kind of magick you use or what you use it for, you're still utilizing portions of the same Universal Law, no matter how different or focused your practice is.

I think the most universal title you could take if you had to have one would be "Occultist" - simply someone who studies and/or practices occult techniques, which basically covers everything not a part of mainstream science.

And besides, as we evolve as a culture and the veils of obscurity are slowly brushed away from magick all together, there won't be any need for titles to describe what is essentially just your meta-profession. If everyone in the world was a doctor, we wouldn't call them doctors, we'd call them people. The only reason we use them now is to talk about who does magick and who doesn't.

peace

Posted by: Koreku Oct 14 2007, 12:54 PM

Hmm... I'll have to go with Mage, if only for the fact that it seems to fit what I do. Magician seems like a fake-ish word (ie, stage magician). Wizard just doesn't seem to fit, somehow. Priest seems too religious (I am not part of a magickal religion, I just practice it). Sorcerer also seems to fit as much as mage, but doesn't sound as cool. smile.gif

Somehow I've always liked the word "Mage". I think it's because, for some reason, the picture I get from Mage is a young, ambitious, powerful, truth-seeking, overall just... cool magick user, so I've always called myself by that name. Also, the word sounds inspirational. I know it's odd, but whenever I think of the word or something I want to write a song, work on my book or write a poem.

Posted by: Thorn Oct 15 2007, 02:36 PM

QUOTE(Koreku @ Oct 14 2007, 11:54 AM) *
Hmm... I'll have to go with Mage, if only for the fact that it seems to fit what I do. Magician seems like a fake-ish word (ie, stage magician). Wizard just doesn't seem to fit, somehow. Priest seems too religious (I am not part of a magickal religion, I just practice it). Sorcerer also seems to fit as much as mage, but doesn't sound as cool. smile.gif

Somehow I've always liked the word "Mage". I think it's because, for some reason, the picture I get from Mage is a young, ambitious, powerful, truth-seeking, overall just... cool magick user, so I've always called myself by that name. Also, the word sounds inspirational. I know it's odd, but whenever I think of the word or something I want to write a song, work on my book or write a poem.



I don't know how much of an authority I am on this subject, being female, but I get the same kind of feelings from the word magus (which is basically the same thing.. I think). Very romantic - in the traditional sense - and mystical. The only thing about that and mage is I think it denotes more of a completed stage, the high learned aging merlin, rather than a young apprentice. Just my input:)

Posted by: Foxglove Oct 21 2007, 05:22 PM

I am a sorceress. I define sorcery as magic practiced through the Self, through the raw power of Will alone. I do not ask gods or spirits to do favors for me, and I personally find such dependence to be... distasteful. I am a powerful being in my own rite, perfectly capable of doing the work myself, and I have no need to involve other entities.

I also practice without tools. I always found them to be unnecessary. Plus, chances are that you won't have them with you when you need to cast at a moment's notice. I think that dependence on tools is a weakness. IMO, it's much better to be able to cast with nothing but the sheer force of your own Will.

I consider witchcraft to be a type of magical practice that involves casting circles, burning candles and incense, and chanting various spells and invocations. Most witches work with nature energies, spirits, or pagan gods and goddesses. Too often, I think it seems like nothing but burning colored candles and reciting bad poetry. lol Maybe that's why I'm not a witch.

Most mages I've encountered don't actually believe in real magic. They tend to think that magic is going to the fridge to grab a cold one, or switching on the television, or making a sandwich-- that sort of thing. Whatever floats their boat, I guess.

I've never heard of anyone who claimed to be a wizard, but I'd have to wonder if they may have read Harry Potter a few too many times during their youth. lol

Anyway, these are just my views, based on my own flawed impressions and stereotypes. Labels might be more trouble than their worth, but do make us think about how we define ourselves as individuals. Maybe they're not so bad, after all.

Posted by: Pandora Oct 21 2007, 10:45 PM

The best word I've found for the sort of profession we're describing here is "Imaginer".

Myself, I'm a shifter. Or at least I would be... sad.gif

Posted by: cryptokiller Oct 22 2007, 05:46 AM

Well I have always called myself a Mage, for no other reason than it just feels comfortable.

I never liked the term Chaote, even though I probably still count as one, I am neither a Shaman nor a Witch by my spellcasting style, and the terms Wizard and Sorcerer just seemed a little too 'High Magick' for me.

I do what I do and do it simply, and I like the idea of having a simple name for myself.

cryptokiller
London
UK

Posted by: Thorn Oct 22 2007, 10:22 PM

I guess I've always gone by the term Witch, even though I do agree with that sorceress chick - Foxglove - about her interpretation of witchcraft. I've just never really found a term that suited me. I liked the word sorceress, although a lot of references state sorcery strictly involves the use of spirits and invocations. Whatever feels best, I guess. A lot of times I've just used the term magically-inclined, but now I'm getting kind of curious about this whole nameology thing.
Also I get the impression the word sorceress implies greater strength and power than that of a witch.. sort of a level up, or something. I dont know, something to think about anyways.

Posted by: SeekerVI Oct 23 2007, 08:58 PM

I've never understood the point of tiles. Just 'cause someone in a long black robe, with strange jewelry, and a goatee says he's a Wizaitch-Invoumner of the 99th Specialist Sons of Mercury, doesn't mean it's necesarily true, or that I understand what that all means. I've also known several individuals who all called themselves Wiccan, but didn't seem to share anything except the firm belief that the Goddess was not God linguistically cross-dressing, but another distinct and separate being.

As I consider myself human, I like Source-error. And on occasion Hey You Over There With The Funny Hat, Yes You.

Posted by: arabian mage999 Oct 23 2007, 10:49 PM

these days magician are the one the magic tricks it has nothing to do whith spells or spirit summoning . it existed long ago in ancient egypt . 7000 years ago long before solomon.
these magician used slight of hand to turn wooden sticks to snakes. until moses defeated them whith his miracle

Posted by: Sachiel Oct 26 2007, 07:34 PM

As far as calling yourself something...

To the uninitiated, I'd just say "occultist," because that clearly defines what we are, and doesn't possess any of the connotations of falsehood, ineptitude, or megalomania that terms like "Arch-Witch," or "Magus" sometimes evoke.

To those who know what you're talking about, just use a technical term, like, "I'm a necromancer/emotional mage/ astral dabbler" or whatever.

There's not real rank of powers...the terms are often interchangeable.

It is important to note that sorcery amongst people who don't actually practice occultism has a definition which implies the work of evil spirits, magician implies stage acts, and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.

EDIT: I mean all connotations to the uninitiated who do not practice magic and who WILL usually think that terms like witch sound very teenage mainstream...so no offense to anyone.

Posted by: Koreku Oct 29 2007, 05:59 PM

(and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.) /endquote

Sorry to dissapoint you, but Mage has been around long, long before World of Warcraft. I mean no disrespect, but honestly... WoW got it from thousands of other things that used the word mage. It's kind of like saying Wizard or Sorcerer sounds very D+D -ish.

I apologize for the sidetracking, let's get back on topic (whoops)

Posted by: Sachiel Oct 29 2007, 10:49 PM

QUOTE(Koreku @ Oct 29 2007, 06:59 PM) *
(and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.) /endquote

Sorry to dissapoint you, but Mage has been around long, long before World of Warcraft. I mean no disrespect, but honestly... WoW got it from thousands of other things that used the word mage. It's kind of like saying Wizard or Sorcerer sounds very D+D -ish.

I apologize for the sidetracking, let's get back on topic (whoops)

What I meant is, if you're talking to the average non-occultist, their main conception of magic is based on fantasy books and games...and in almost all games possessing a magic element, the term mage is either utilised, or in an online environment the term mage is as standard as, say, "lol."

Posted by: telempath Nov 23 2007, 12:06 AM

I actually call myself a very long title. Psionic Vampiric Mage.

I don't like the term magician. When I hear that, I think of ceremonial magick. I think of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn stuff. I think of all of those silly names, rituals, gestures, spirits, and useless pomp and circumstance things. I find it boring, tedious, and useless (for myself). I think of people blabbing about their toms, grimoires, and magickal orders, going on philosophical tangents that have no meaning to the real world.

I link sorcery to conjuring, controlling, or working with entities.

My boyfriend actually got into wizardry a while back. Interestingly enough, it is the male counterpart to the witch. They both share the same root. I think one means wise woman the other wise man.

Posted by: Petrus Nov 27 2007, 06:26 AM

I've always liked the word "tourist," myself. ;-)

It works right now because I don't really know anything at all yet...it'll work in the future because I probably plan to jump around a lot...and the other cool part is that when people hear it, they automatically assume you're an ignoramus, so you can disarm those who don't know better. diablo.gif

Posted by: Galren Dec 6 2007, 08:15 PM

I go along with Foxglove to an extent, I dont ask entities, I tell them. I do a lot of work with Fate related magic, so a Sorcerer is fairly accurate, as a technical term, it can also mean one who is the source of their magic. Wizards tend to be highly ceremonial magicians, lots of Enochian and Quabbalist stuff. Druids are fairly easy to label, witches can be male or female, Warlock, nice ring to it, means oath-breaker, so its insulting to those in the know.

Posted by: jlx Jan 2 2008, 09:46 PM

insane.gif i would refer to my self as a mad man in training =what i would become would be a mad genius or something
I dont really know but as i see it we are all mad on this planet and the more your called mad the wiser you seem to be. rule.gif

Posted by: Praxis Nov 17 2008, 05:33 PM

These days, I find myself preferring the term Mage.

Posted by: lordssword Nov 20 2008, 05:56 PM

i refer to myself as a Necromancer

enough said

Posted by: The Sorceress Nov 22 2008, 06:20 PM

QUOTE(Foxglove @ Oct 21 2007, 06:22 PM) *

I am a sorceress. I define sorcery as magic practiced through the Self, through the raw power of Will alone.


ac42.gif




QUOTE

I do not ask gods or spirits to do favors for me, and I personally find such dependence to be... distasteful. I am a powerful being in my own rite, perfectly capable of doing the work myself, and I have no need to involve other entities.



I work with deities, but I channel their power through me.

I call upon them to grant me their wisdom and their magick. I do not ask them to do the work for me.



QUOTE
I also practice without tools. I always found them to be unnecessary. Plus, chances are that you won't have them with you when you need to cast at a moment's notice. I think that dependence on tools is a weakness. IMO, it's much better to be able to cast with nothing but the sheer force of your own Will.


Tools are unreliable, IMO.

They can break, they can be damaged, they can be lost ... without your tools, you're stuck!



QUOTE

I consider witchcraft to be a type of magical practice that involves casting circles, burning candles and incense, and chanting various spells and invocations. Most witches work with nature energies, spirits, or pagan gods and goddesses. Too often, I think it seems like nothing but burning colored candles and reciting bad poetry.


LOL ... I don't do the poetry thing, either.

I'm sorry, but burying three beans under a full moon will neither make you wealthy nor a Size 8.

Posted by: Dancing Coyote Jan 12 2009, 03:08 AM

Well it all depends. To me all these things stated mean different things for conversational use, my peers know what I'm talking about when I say "sorcerer" I mean a person who uses ritual magic and generally is very ceremonial about magical means. They all have their specific meanings for each individual. For me, Witch is considered a sexless title one can easily imagine the meaning behind. If you don't like that choice "Practitioner" has always worked for me. I can understand the problem of figuring out your language for explaining the phenomena, just beware when you name something you put your power over it. You might give yourself a title you'll eventually fall into, and that could be a bad thing.

Now what really interests me is: Why do all Sorcerers have short spiky hair?

Posted by: HSetesh Jan 26 2009, 08:32 PM

I think that Magus (plural: Magi) is the most appropriate signifier.

Posted by: R.D.Stormsinger Mar 23 2009, 06:52 PM

Im not into titles, per se. if i had to choose one, it would be wizard because i strive to learn and understand. Sorcerers were considered black magicians because they would evok spirits to do their dirty work, thereby pretty much taking the quick and easy path to power, rather than learning that power for themselves, and learning the responsability that comes with it. I tolerate mage in a social setting, when im with my order, and wizard when i have to include a title. I dont like priest because im not an ordained priest, even though all christians are considered priests for the Lord. I do not like being called a sorcerer because i view it as a negative title, and i dont like warlock because it is derived from an old word meaning for traitor.

go with what you like, but know that other people could take these terms very wrongly..... which is why i keep my title to myself.

Posted by: esoterica Mar 25 2009, 03:26 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi - very interesting


Posted by: Zosimo Apr 7 2009, 07:34 PM

I sometimes tell people that I am a practitioner of post-modern magick. Sometimes I call myself a Choate. Sometimes I call myself a mage or a "maga" ( which is an Italian word for a female mage or a sorceress.) As the HPS of a local pagan/Wiccan coven, I sometimes even refer to myself as a witch.

The term "mage" or magus (plural magi) comes from the word magoi from which we also get the word mageiea (magic). It origiinally referred to the priestly theurgists of Persia but magianism then diversified and spread across the Near East, North Africa, the Mediterranean, and Europe. By the turn of the first millenium of the common era, magi were all over the place but they were not exactly members of mainstream society ,and mainstream society (then as now) regarded magical workers with suspicion and fear, even if they did use their services on occasion. Although somewhat whitewashed from history, the Biblical Jesus was thought to be a magoi, was accused of being so in tracts of the Jewish Talmud, and 3rd and 4th century images of Jesus depict him holding a magic wand. You can find these images on the Web.

"Sorcerer" (from the French sortiar) and "Wizard" are just different names for mage or magician.

The term "witch" (from the Old English wicce) was generally a derogatory term until the early 20th century with the occult revival when it became fashionable for would-be reconstructionists to call themselves witches. Otherwise, it often referred to the mythical witch (the bogeyman type of witch) and not folk healers and spell casters , which were defined by other titles and whose magic often involved protecting folks from "witches." For instance, Italian sorcerers were called magos, magas, fattuchieros ("fixers") or stregono or stregona (ie,"sorcerer/ess"), they were not called "stregha" ("witch").Much Italian sorcery and shamanism has to do with being protected from influences such as "witches." I believe the same was true in Celtic, Brit, and Germanic paganism.

Posted by: Ozmagog Apr 25 2009, 02:27 AM

I tend to think of myself as a sorceror or combat magician as I am most interested in combat magic and martial arts.

Posted by: SadhriiAgnVega Aug 29 2009, 02:42 PM

Personally I have created my own rank of magick users. Each rank includes all of the above qualities. It is just a guideline.

Sympathetic Witch/Wizard(at the level of using basic ceremonial spells, mantras and hand cuts - learnt divination techniques)
Witch/Wizard (at the level of a fundamental understanding of magick and being able to create spells innovatively)
Mage (magic user who can also use charges like malas or wands)
Sorcerer (at the level of using basic empty-hand magic)
Siddhi / Sorcerer (at the level of charging and using a variety of empty hand spells and a enough magical ability to practice basic geomancy and large area spells e.g. weather changing) This is me!
Retsu Siddhi (A siddhi who has also reached a level where he can summon ghosts, demons empty hand and use silent mantras who also has a complete understanding of elements and aligned seasons, months, years, family members, organs, energy types)
Zai Siddhi (A siddhi who can use advanced elemental and environment control)
Zen Siddhi (A siddhi who has passed into the eternal realm and can return in his/her same form hundreds of years later, or teach from the other realms) My taoist teacher/guide - Tzu Lin Pin
Tao Siddhi (Hi, I'm gandalf the white - you get the point. Immortals who have almost unlimited influence over forces)

There is alkso the kuji in based ranks which go along with it,
Rin - Strength (having enough will and energy to do tangible magic)
Pyō / Hyō - Channel (having the focus to do tangible magic)
Tō - Harmony (having the contentment and wisdom to do tangible magic)
Sha - Healing (self explanatory)
Kai - Sense of Danger (")
Jin - Reading of thoughts. (")
Retsu - Control space and time. (")
Zai - sky or elements control. (")
Zen - enlightenment. (")

We don't all be having to aim for the top, many people may wish to be able to do a little magick for help or to attune with nature.
The ranks are based on tangible influence. This is all based on my beliefs so don't take offense if you might be considered lower in the ranks than you'd have wanted to be. XD

Let's say I'm an apprentice of another wizard and I'm at the level where I've created my first spell for healing.


Posted by: Kath Oct 14 2009, 06:52 AM

in response to the original post, mage/magi/witch are all gender-neutral terms. You're trying too hard to look at things through pink & blue colored glasses. magic has no gender.

Personally I'm a Kath (hey it worked for buddha didn't it?)
it's not a very widely recognized magical title, but that's ok because labels are pretty meaningless.
It's a pity that the only way we have to communicate as a species is through phonetic tags which are so heavily laiden with 'pretext'.

Posted by: Relikhan Nov 19 2009, 02:51 PM

How about student... To take a title with that signigigance would imply that you are a master... Mastery takes a lifetime of dedication and sacrafice. I prefer the title of student for the time being.... smaller shoes to fill.

student of the occult? student of divinity? Maybe Doctor? Witch Doctor?

Just a thought

Posted by: Kath Nov 22 2009, 09:34 AM

ahh, *nod nod* I agree with you. "student" is a great title, much better than anything that implies 'guru' status.

the moment you start to think you know everything, you stop growing and start shriveling.

Posted by: Slyphhur Jan 14 2010, 09:32 PM

Hmm, well since there are lots of different connotations with all these titles, i just call myself an occultic practicioner

Posted by: Acid09 Jan 14 2010, 10:51 PM

In our modern society I thought a warlock was the male counter part to a witch. But then again who wants to be known as an oath breaker?

Let me liken this to the field of psychology (you could do this with any major study as well). But in the broad field of psychology you can add the word psychologist to any of the following words: forensic, behavioral, existential, biological, social, environmental, child, truama, neuro, clinical, addictions, marketing, research, death, business and probably a few others I forgot as well.

You have the entire field of psychology and each of these types of psychologists are specialist within it. Yet they've all taken the same basic classes! In a weekend seminar, minus years gained by experience, you could train a social psychologist how to be a neuropsychologist... ok so no you can't because that requires a medical degree I believe... but say a social psychologst to a clinical psychologist. Everything they've learned in many ways over lap and it wouldn't be very hard for one specialist to take what ever classes to become whatever other title they want to hold. Some actually hold multiple titles!

So looking at the world of the occult and spiritualism I see a similar situation where people can become this or that title and really what does it mean? If you specialize in one area it might make sense to go by a title that reflects that and distinguishes you from some other specialist and yet there is probably a lot of common knowledge between similar specialist. I guess the point I'm making that personally I have found it to be nothing more than semantics to argue over titles. I just go by occultist.

Posted by: VitalWinds Jan 17 2010, 02:13 AM

I just go by "practitioner of magick". That way I don't get any stereotypical associations. smile.gif

Posted by: Praxis Nov 6 2011, 07:17 PM

I still am very fond of the term Mage after the last several years.

It remains short and sweet and right to the point for me, compared to all the others.

Posted by: Faustus Sep 26 2012, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(curi @ Jul 6 2006, 06:59 PM) *

Good evening,

This is perhaps a topic that has been mentioned quite regularly, but what in your opinion should a male practicing magic call himself? Why do some choose to call themselves "magician" instead of "wizard." Next, when should a male, or female for that matter, begin to call themselves by these different names? It is sad to think that an armchair magician is calling himself a great and powerful mage. I understand that these different names have to do a lot with your background, but I thought I'd get everyone's imput on the classification of these sorts of men and women alike. Shouldn't a woman who practices magic be considered a witch? Or shouldn't a male who does the same thing consider himself a magician? Let's keep things simple, right? There seem to always be complications that arise with the term. What do you consider yourself and why? What's your background? Any thoughts would be a very interesting read.

Sincerely,

Mr. Curi


Versed in both sleight of hand and in ceremonial magick, I prefer the term "magician."

Posted by: Jack Dec 1 2012, 07:27 PM

Haha, it's a little hard to answer the question without feeling pretentious, but I'd have to roll back to the Victorian era and dredge up Spirit Worker for myself. I think that comes closest, but at the end of the day it comes down to what matters to you. And off the soapbox I go. blablabla.gif

Posted by: BelleNuit Apr 21 2013, 02:33 AM

QUOTE(Jack @ Dec 2 2012, 03:27 AM) *

Haha, it's a little hard to answer the question without feeling pretentious, but I'd have to roll back to the Victorian era and dredge up Spirit Worker for myself. I think that comes closest, but at the end of the day it comes down to what matters to you. And off the soapbox I go. blablabla.gif


Now after 42 years of magickal study and lots of reading and practise, I have still just skimmed the surface of a vast amount of magick subjects that have my interest , so I call myself lifetime student of magick.
Me I am not into titles. I am selfthaught and a student who lighted her own lamp.

Posted by: delphinium Apr 10 2015, 01:46 PM

I typically classify myself as a mage, a diviner, a psychic and a healer as I do have a knack for both psionic and magical healing, and I am fairly good at divination spells. I also practice sorcery and druidic earth magic, I have connected with a dryad by the name of Dendranaliandra, and she often assists in my rituals at my sacred glade in a nature park near my home.

Posted by: LeFou May 8 2015, 07:07 PM

I agree with some of the previous posters that I think 'witch' has been pretty well claimed by wiccans of both genders. I both love and hate the term sorcerer because it is dramatic, making it great in terms of self identifying for magic, but not so much for defining oneself in public. Magician immediately brings to mind stage magic, not something I look down on by the way, those guys are incredibly talented performers and occasionally engineers.

My friends who know I practice magic like to call me a Dark Wizard because ONE TIME I may have accidentally cursed a guy. Don't worry, that was early in my path; I learned my lesson. On the occasion I try to explain my practice to someone new, I usually tell them I am shaman; it doesn't carry the stigma of witch or the over-the-topness of sorcerer, but still conveys the spiritual nature of my practice.

Posted by: magari Aug 30 2015, 10:20 AM

Wave Master

.... Pattern... Manipulator?

Posted by: fairest Sep 9 2015, 03:11 PM

People have used props for thousands of years to assist in their focus during magickal workings. Poppets, herbs that burn and sting to induce pain and anger, stone circles, and anything else that would help to create the proper mood, help to stimulate and intensify the right emotions, and help to direct one’s energy and focus are known as "props."

One should be powerful enough to influence one’s environment using the power of one’s mind alone without having to rely upon props. Props definitely help in beginning magic as they provide a focus.

Advanced working with props is a different matter and requires infusing them with energy or binding thoughtforms or souls into them. Here is where props have real power and can become magickal assistants within themselves. From observation the name one adopts is aligned with the props one uses. But the true adept need no props, so he/she doesn't need any 'name' as the adepts goal is that of literally becoming a god. All the true adept needs is his/her mind which has become exceptionally powerful because of consistent power meditations.
http//:www.joyofsatan.org

Posted by: Master Sareth Jun 22 2016, 09:05 AM

A Title is like a name, if your name is bob and you believe yourself to be named bob then to you, you are bob. The deference between a name and a Title is other people's acceptance in referring to you as that title... I mean to say that a King is only a king if others believe him to be king And the same goes for any other title. If I just start proclaiming myself to be the president then like you would expect. Nobody would believe me and "The title would not stick" and only i would be calling myself the president which would be delusional.

In the case of a wizard or magician the same is true, In my opinion if there is one other person out there who believes you when you say your a wizard then to that person that is what you are. Not everybody has to believe your title is legitimate in much the same way some people call Jesus a "Messiah" (which is a title) while others don't believe that to be true like muslims and jews.

At the end of the day your title Is based on belief others have in you. If My title is a wizard then that simply means that people believe I am a wizard, If my title is king, that simply means people believe I am a king and if my title is messiah then that simply means that people believe I am a messiah.

You have to convince people that you are what you say you are otherwise people wont have much of a reason to believe you when you proclaim that you are this or that. That is the whole reason why wizards do magic. So that people will believe the magician is supernatural when in reality the magician is simply pulling off a simple trick of slide of hand with a little prestidigitation. But The point of the magic trick to begin with was to MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE you are supernatural.

Wizards, witches, conjurers, mages, sorcerers, clerics, scientists, politicians are all part of a group of thinkers who have one goal in mind and that is to get you to believe in something. But they differ in WHAT they want you to believe and have different techniques to get you to believe what they want you to believe. Scientists for example want you to believe in the big bang theory and all the other things which they collectively believe to be true whether it is or not. The way scientists make people believe in something usually means doing an experiment which is done like a magician does magic.

The scientist will illustrate why what he wants you to believe is true based on the scientist's hypothesis (which is his theory, what he believes is true) and if people believe his explanation then it might as well be fact unless someone can prove it is not.

politicians want you to believe that they will be a good leader and that you should believe their lies so that they might get a political position. Then he won't do what he promised.

clerics want you to believe what ever the hell they can get away with, so that you donate and warship at their marble and gold plated alters.

As for magicians and most any synonym of the word we want you to to believe that we have powers and can do the impossible, like casting a demonic spirit into your house to haunt you. Having people believe that you can do this can be quite useful at getting what we want. we do magic so that we can get people to believe we have power over the supernatural.


It's called make believe people and that's what titles, lies and magic are for.

I don't think it really matters what you call yourself, but if you want a title then I would recommend convincing people that is what you are.

If I had to choose my favorite word to refer to a magic practitioner I would choose: Wizard because I like how the classic blue starry wizard looks and I like what it represents which is power though wisdom and knowledge. I personally believe that wisdom and knowledge is truly powerful but only when it is aligned with your personal goals otherwise wisdom and knowledge can be quite useless and a burden.

Merlin the great wizard of legend saw that England was locked in a foolish civil war so he devised a magic trick, a contest to pull an old sword from the grip of a stone. The prize for pulling the sword from the stone was to be chosen by god to rule England. War lords came from all over England, they came so that when they pulled the sword from the stone the people of England would accept them as the one true king. The contest was obviously rigged by Merlin so that he might choose for himself who would be king. Merlin saw all of the warlords and decided
that non of them was fit to be king so he chose a small boy from the crowd because he saw righteousness in him. This story is iconic in the world of magic because it illustrates that sorcerers are greater then kings and that magic and make believe can shape the fate of our world.


I think the only difference between words describing anyone practicing magic who goes by a title like wizard or witch is association If you call yourself a street magician then you are associating yourself with a type of street performer. If you call yourself a witch then your associating yourself with Wicca. and so on.

Posted by: Jyoti Jul 27 2016, 11:40 AM


i would most of the time liked to think myself as a Mystic, that's fine with me. rolleyes.gif

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