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 Are The Creatures Mentioned By The Necronomicon Real?, creatures from the Necronomicon real?
brokenhearth
post Aug 26 2009, 01:38 PM
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are the creatures mentioned in the Necronomicon real? I read some say that the creatures mentioned in by H.P.Lovecraft and in the Necronomicon are real even if the book isnt

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Belumnabum
post Aug 29 2009, 06:05 AM
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QUOTE(brokenhearth @ Aug 26 2009, 02:38 PM) *

are the creatures mentioned in the Necronomicon real? I read some say that the creatures mentioned in by H.P.Lovecraft and in the Necronomicon are real even if the book isnt

Good friend, the creatures are real but if you are talking about seeing them as you see a human being then I am afraid it is not the case less you are intoxicated somehow in a meditative starte. I have seen many of them and killed many of them but I will not reveal more than that to you.

You must be careful some of them being bad luck in different forms.

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Ankhhape
post Aug 29 2009, 08:05 AM
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The Necronomicon is fiction. There are no constructs, servitors, egregores, demons or djinn that were manifest by this book, it's author or anyone for that matter.

Interesting fiction though and wonderful imagery with a touch of actual research and fact
The non-Lovecraft books are also interesting


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Aug 29 2009, 09:23 PM
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Can we safely assume then, Ankhape, that you have personally attempted to use this system, following the rituals set forth in the book to the letter and attempting the gate walking rituals yourself? I hear that this book is fiction almost exclusively from people who have never attempted the rituals, and when they are those who have, they usually omitted some 'minor' detail that they did not find 'critical' in some way.

The structure of the ritual of gatewalking is intended to induce a heightened state of consciousness or ecstacy, wherein the magician is highly susceptible and undergoes an ordeal/ritual intended to confront him with seven progressively deeper aspects of his/her subconscious mind. The magical theory behind the book is sound, and you will definitely get results if you follow the book directly. I know from personal experience, rather than some general assumption based on what I have heard and read - those that claim the book is a work of fiction and is not operable, nearly 100% of the time cite the same sources for those claims. Fiction or not, the system does work. All that can exist does exist, and all that conscioussness can intersect with does exist in some fashion. Therefore all mythology is just as valid or invalid as all other mythology. No mythology is realistic in absolute fact - this is not the point of mythology or mythological constructs.

I only ever walked the Nanna gate and then put the system down, probably for good, as it was not the path I wanted to take into my subconscious. I personally have very real doubts about the safety of the system, but I also understand the nature of energy currents and how they interact with us as individuals - we can have different reactions that on a visceral level we correlate and interpret as positive and negative experience.

In my own opinion, the entities of the necronomicon are as real as any other conception of human consciousness, for the reason given above that the human mind is not capable of concieving of anything outside of reality, and the many layers of existence are infinite: therefore an infinite existence of things must exist in that continuum: therefore all that may exist or can be concieved of existing, does exist. The question is only whether or not the veils that normally separate those infinite possibilities can be pierced, and whether any individual method will accomplish that to any extent. It is the application of universal laws of consciousness which allow that phenomenon to occur, and this system applies those laws adequately enough to cause a sufficient brain change to allow the piercing of that veil to occur; therefore the system is legitimate, whether it's mythology was originally objective or not is irrelavent.

peace



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Ankhhape
post Aug 30 2009, 10:04 AM
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My intention is not to discredit what someone as yourself may get out of the Necronomicon nor do I wish to argue its authenticity or realism. I own the original Lovecraft book and the Tyson ones, I enjoyed reading them.

If anyone wishes to read a decent proposal on the Necronomicon (don't be turned off by the organization that wrote it) I suggest this short read: Necronomicon:facts on fiction


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Belumnabum
post Aug 30 2009, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Aug 29 2009, 10:23 PM) *



In my own opinion, the entities of the necronomicon are as real as any other conception of human consciousness, for the reason given above that the human mind is not capable of concieving of anything outside of reality, and the many layers of existence are infinite: therefore an infinite existence of things must exist in that continuum: therefore all that may exist or can be concieved of existing, does exist. The question is only whether or not the veils that normally separate those infinite possibilities can be pierced, and whether any individual method will accomplish that to any extent. It is the application of universal laws of consciousness which allow that phenomenon to occur, and this system applies those laws adequately enough to cause a sufficient brain change to allow the piercing of that veil to occur; therefore the system is legitimate, whether it's mythology was originally objective or not is irrelavent.

peace

About the above, I have heard that the restrictor may be the magnetic field but is it possible once that boundary is gone that all what you stated may be real?

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Imperial Arts
post Aug 30 2009, 07:16 PM
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Lovecraft's monsters (and those of his followers who continued the mythos) are apparently ordinary physical aliens who just happen to be VERY LARGE.

A very condensed version of the tale runs that they entered through an interdimensional portal somewhere far away in outer space, that they traveled to various star systems and picked up stragglers along the way, and finally arrived at Saturn. They came to Earth, ruled it for some milions of years, an then somehow lost control and were banished to caverns, a tomb beneath the South Pacific, and caverns in the moon. One of the old ones was reduced to a worm and exiled to Pluto.

Cthulhu, their leader (resembling a giant jellyfish monster), is said to communicate through dreams since the sea salt inhibits the power of his ordinary telepathic chatter through which he enslaves mortals. Cthulhu is the high priest of Yog-Sotthoth, one of the "outer gods" who represent natural principles rather than individual identities. Yog-Sothoth itself is the network of interconnected spheres which forms the entirety of the physical universe, the other outer gods being things like Shub-Niggurath and Hastur (fertility gods), and Azathoth the source of animate life.

A lot of Lovecraft's tales are derived from Poe (see "tekeli-li!") or other fiction, or are collected from New England sailor lore. The idea that aliens visited Earth millions of years ago is plausible, but do you want to go excavate the Valeria Guyot and try to find them? The idea that Lovecraft hit on solid fact is very far-fetched.

As for the "Simon" Necronomicon, the entities described therein are, by and large, products of ancient Middle-Eastern religion and have absolutely nothing to do with Lovecraft or anything in his concept of the Necronomicon. Ask whether or not you think Sumerian religion is all crap, and you have an answer on the beings in that black paperback. You want an ancient religion with confusing lore, wild lurid tales, bizarre rituals, lots of sex and violence, and impossible-to-pronounce names? Try Hinduism.

The Hay-Wilson Necronomicon has more mythos-lore included, like Barzai, Nodens, Khephnes, etc... but is overall just a book of spells, rituals, and conjurations that uses mythos names and bastardized rituals.

Lovecraft's Necronomicon is less a book of spells and more like a history of Earth from millions of years ago. A lot of it can be loosely connected to actual history, geology, etc. His city of the Old Ones was Aklo, which is the name of a rectangular spent-uranium deposit from two billion years ago in Gabon, Africa. There was indeed a continent that rose and sank during the pre-cambrian. There are lots of other interesting parallels to make that would appeal to those educated in the obscure facts of natural science. Thinking about the various connections between these natural features and the possibility of huge immortal aliens will actually drive you insane, whereas casting a magic circle on Belatane and chanting "Yog Sothoth" will not.


This post has been edited by Imperial Arts: Aug 30 2009, 07:25 PM


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Penny_Lane
post Sep 2 2009, 07:47 AM
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Based on 21 years of working with the Necronomicon, I would say that they are real, although not necessarily corporeal beings.

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Belumnabum
post Sep 4 2009, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE(Imperial Arts @ Aug 30 2009, 08:16 PM) *

Lovecraft's monsters (and those of his followers who continued the mythos) are apparently ordinary physical aliens who just happen to be VERY LARGE.

A very condensed version of the tale runs that they entered through an interdimensional portal somewhere far away in outer space, that they traveled to various star systems and picked up stragglers along the way, and finally arrived at Saturn. They came to Earth, ruled it for some milions of years, an then somehow lost control and were banished to caverns, a tomb beneath the South Pacific, and caverns in the moon. One of the old ones was reduced to a worm and exiled to Pluto.

Cthulhu, their leader (resembling a giant jellyfish monster), is said to communicate through dreams since the sea salt inhibits the power of his ordinary telepathic chatter through which he enslaves mortals. Cthulhu is the high priest of Yog-Sotthoth, one of the "outer gods" who represent natural principles rather than individual identities. Yog-Sothoth itself is the network of interconnected spheres which forms the entirety of the physical universe, the other outer gods being things like Shub-Niggurath and Hastur (fertility gods), and Azathoth the source of animate life.

A lot of Lovecraft's tales are derived from Poe (see "tekeli-li!") or other fiction, or are collected from New England sailor lore. The idea that aliens visited Earth millions of years ago is plausible, but do you want to go excavate the Valeria Guyot and try to find them? The idea that Lovecraft hit on solid fact is very far-fetched.

As for the "Simon" Necronomicon, the entities described therein are, by and large, products of ancient Middle-Eastern religion and have absolutely nothing to do with Lovecraft or anything in his concept of the Necronomicon. Ask whether or not you think Sumerian religion is all crap, and you have an answer on the beings in that black paperback. You want an ancient religion with confusing lore, wild lurid tales, bizarre rituals, lots of sex and violence, and impossible-to-pronounce names? Try Hinduism.

The Hay-Wilson Necronomicon has more mythos-lore included, like Barzai, Nodens, Khephnes, etc... but is overall just a book of spells, rituals, and conjurations that uses mythos names and bastardized rituals.

Lovecraft's Necronomicon is less a book of spells and more like a history of Earth from millions of years ago. A lot of it can be loosely connected to actual history, geology, etc. His city of the Old Ones was Aklo, which is the name of a rectangular spent-uranium deposit from two billion years ago in Gabon, Africa. There was indeed a continent that rose and sank during the pre-cambrian. There are lots of other interesting parallels to make that would appeal to those educated in the obscure facts of natural science. Thinking about the various connections between these natural features and the possibility of huge immortal aliens will actually drive you insane, whereas casting a magic circle on Belatane and chanting "Yog Sothoth" will not.


Well said friend and I shall say that the same of Atlantis is starting to be to that of Japan. There are various reasons for this among many I am aware of but those are personal. My share is that Japan is a literal slave to the energies of the Ancient ones in terms of this.

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mystick
post Oct 15 2009, 11:29 AM
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Worked with the system for around 3 years now.... Real entities though corporal manifestation in the real world is very unlikely... Its not much necessary for those Divine beings to take on physical human form to communicate... the most appropriate method being via vibrations or mind connection. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) but their effect on the physical is very much strong depending on the implications of such (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



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Kath
post Oct 16 2009, 06:08 AM
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I would submit, as a quasi-chaote, that the question of whether the necronomicon is 'real', and the question of whether it presents a workable approach to magick, are two very different questions.

The book is fiction.

But I'd argue that "most" human conceptions of gods, deities, daimons, etc. are archetypal and originally fictional. You can, by way of pure fiction, create a very large egregore-like manmade entity within the collective consciousness, through the collective belief and/or imagination of thousands or millions of people. Obviously if that belief & imagination is part of a devout faith, as in the case of a being like Allah, the construct will be more substantial than something born of less serious body of work, as in the case of a being like Spider Man.

This isn't to say that I think that all incorporeal beings are man-made, I don't. But I do think that "nearly all" incorporeal beings popularized in fiction, mythology, and religion are man-made. And that many entities which people may interact with on a more individual level are often 'individual made', or created by small groups of people (often unwittingly). Bear in mind that just because a being may be born originally out of imagination, it can itself become a very real construct.

I also think that there are countless multitudes of non-man-made "astral wildlife", and deities. But that for the most part these are not to be found in the writings of mankind. Of course, it is always possible that a non-man-made being might influence an individual or group of people to immortalize it in fiction, tradition, religion, etc. But I think that's fairly rare.

Just my $0.02

This post has been edited by Kath: Oct 16 2009, 06:11 AM


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Kriemhilde
post Oct 18 2009, 10:06 PM
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The things in the Necronomicon are marginally real now that enough people have poured energy into them and made them so. I could write a book like it, put it on the Internet, and in a few years the constructs from it will exist as well. That doesn't mean it's anything ancient or powerful. It just means that people took it as authentic and worked with it.

A friend of mine decided to find out from Lovecraft himself one night. As he tells me, he (Lovecraft) informed him that he was very disappointed in his readers, and that he thought people would display more intelligence and realise the work was a piece of fiction. Of course, I've not asked him myself, so I'm just passing this along as the latest "ghost gossip". ^^

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Enumbisag28
post Jul 3 2015, 07:43 AM
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According to Parker Ryan and my own private research a lot of the main Old Ones such as Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, Dagon, Yig, Tsathoggua, and Azathoth are based on the following characters:

1. Cthulhu = Leviathan.
2. Yog-Sothoth = Yog-Seth-Thoth = Jormungandr (Oroborous, the World Serpent).
3. Dagon
4. Yig = Damballah.
5. Tsathoggua = Bael.
6. Azathoth = Asag-Thoth = Semjaza.

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