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 Possible Soul Exchange?
Eria
post Nov 29 2012, 11:05 PM
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Hi guys, I'm new here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I would like to ask, would it be possible if I want my soul to be in someone else's body. Have you heard of walk-ins? Is there such practices/ritual for this? Hope to know more

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fatherjhon
post Nov 29 2012, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE(Eria @ Nov 30 2012, 12:05 AM) *

Hi guys, I'm new here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I would like to ask, would it be possible if I want my soul to be in someone else's body. Have you heard of walk-ins? Is there such practices/ritual for this? Hope to know more




Yes, there are ways to do this, though I never have heard of walk-ins. Is that your name for it or does it imply some particular use? Depending on what you what to do the method will change. This sort of out-of-body practice is used for everything from performing 10,000 years of practice to Taoist immortals who cast off their bodies and take up new ones of either matter or energy - it is even a prerequisite for samadhi on external objects. The actual technique is apparently quite simple but requires you to break the cord that binds the soul to the body. Doing that is less simple and yields complected side effects such as not being able to get back to your body.



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Cosmic consciousness is devoid of diversity; yet the universe of diversity exists in notion....
We contemplate that reality in which everything exists, to which everything belongs,
from which everything has emerged, which is the cause of everything and which is everything....
The light of [this] self-knowledge alone illumines all experiences. It shines by its own light.
This inner light appears to be outside and to illumine external objects.

-Sage Vasishtha

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Goibniu
post Nov 30 2012, 02:35 AM
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I know what she means by 'walk ins'. SHe means that sometimes a person goes through a rough time and it seems that they just vacate the body, like a non physical form of suicide or resigning from their life. They are replaced by a loose spirit who probably has the original person's memories, but the memories are distant or unclear. The walk in may exhibit a different personality or new skills.

Yes it is probably possible. I've studied it somewhat in a online group. Probably I could find the site and post it. But I'm not sure exactly how safe it is to do so I have't been motivated enough to do any practical experimentation with it.


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Eria
post Nov 30 2012, 03:46 AM
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So which mean 'walk in' is not relating with astral? Fatherjon, yeah! what are the ways? im interested and want to possess the techniques of controlling out of body and the cord. Also i have read about Taoism in which they believe in is the theory of cycle of life and reincarnation. Except that their theory I read about was about the physical and mental soul departs automatically to the gap between the yin and yang realm and awaits for another new cycle of life in the yin realm which is another side of our planet earth with a similar world as the one we live here.

Zelator, if you are could and able to share the post here that would be great!

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☞Tomber☜
post Nov 30 2012, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE(Goibniu @ Nov 30 2012, 04:35 AM) *

I know what she means by 'walk ins'. SHe means that sometimes a person goes through a rough time and it seems that they just vacate the body, like a non physical form of suicide or resigning from their life. They are replaced by a loose spirit who probably has the original person's memories, but the memories are distant or unclear. The walk in may exhibit a different personality or new skills.


That sounds horrible but I don't understand how that would work. How would you identify this vacant state? This is a very interesting thread. Even though this who thing does sound super dangerous (like fatherjohn mentioned with getting rid of the cord) I'm wondering about that memory issue. If some random spirit is able to remember the person's original memories then I'm curious how much memory a magician would be able to get out of some other person they did this to.

Honestly this whole process of taking over someone else's body seems a little evil. Basically this would kill someone unless the other person just went temporarily astral or maybe blacked out. This is purely conjecture but it seems to me that going into the astral, then forcibly entering someone else's body would kill them. It's not pleasant to bring up but I don't know how else to say it.

Also this would mean that a person who could do this would be as powerful as the bald man in the wheelchair from X-Men. Or even if this wasn't deadly or dangerous for one or either parties involved, the potential for damage would be incredible considering the potential political or otherwise influential candidates for this.

Sorry if I got carried away hear but I'm interested in hearing what other people have to say about this. Regardless this would be an extremely advanced and tricky move to pull off.

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Nov 30 2012, 10:25 PM


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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Eria
post Dec 1 2012, 04:54 AM
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Maybe for the 'walk in' seems a little to the evilish since one soul will be or possibly roaming around aimlessly?For fatherjhorn statement, I have a question. By pulling out the cord of another, also switching and binding cords from soul to a different body also can be possessed in such a way?

It's alright Tomber, glad you keyed down your point of views(:

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fatherjhon
post Dec 1 2012, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE(Goibniu @ Nov 30 2012, 03:35 AM) *

SHe means that sometimes a person goes through a rough time and it seems that they just vacate the body, like a non physical form of suicide or resigning from their life. They are replaced by a loose spirit who probably has the original person's memories, but the memories are distant or unclear.


That's rather interesting. Does it happen often? I am reminded of a lecture I got when I first started to learn AP in the Taoist fashion and was told a circle and sacred training space were must haves unless you want to come back and find something else is sharing your body.

QUOTE(Eria @ Nov 30 2012, 04:46 AM) *

So which mean 'walk in' is not relating with astral? Fatherjon, yeah! what are the ways? im interested and want to possess the techniques of controlling out of body and the cord. Also i have read about Taoism in which they believe in is the theory of cycle of life and reincarnation. Except that their theory I read about was about the physical and mental soul departs automatically to the gap between the yin and yang realm and awaits for another new cycle of life in the yin realm which is another side of our planet earth with a similar world as the one we live here.


Why? There is nothing useful you can do with the knowledge. It is used to enhance meditation and requires you to fist practice samadhi on the light of consciousness and then the ability to associate not with the ego but with what gives off that light.

As to the Taoist view on reincarnation, they were rather unclear about what happens after death. Everything the ego understands as "I" disappears at death.
More are less exploding into between 5 and 9 parts to go live different places and depending on if offerings are made to them they will fade either slow or fast. The Taoists never cared much about the part that moves from life to life, as it is so hard to find. Most would waste their lives trying to find it. Instead they attempted to find the Tao in everything and there by get as close to the thing from which the individual soul emerges as possible. The Tao is the place between yin and yang and few people make it there.

QUOTE(Eria @ Dec 1 2012, 05:54 AM) *

For fatherjhorn statement, I have a question. By pulling out the cord of another, also switching and binding cords from soul to a different body also can be possessed in such a way?


You would both be trapped outside unable to go back, when your energy body was exhausted your consciousness would dissipate and both people would die. Again why do you want to go and posses someone? Their is no reason I could think of other than to be a jerk.

QUOTE(☞Tomber☜ @ Nov 30 2012, 11:25 PM) *

That sounds horrible but I don't understand how that would work. How would you identify this vacant state? This is a very interesting thread. Even though this who thing does sound super dangerous (like fatherjohn mentioned with getting rid of the cord) I'm wondering about that memory issue. If some random spirit is able to remember the person's original memories then I'm curious how much memory a magician would be able to get out of some other person they did this to.


I would like to know that myself. From theory, once you identify with the light of consciousness there is not a whole lot you cannot do as you have found yourself as the underlying structure of the universe. At that point it is mostly knowing what everything does. I do not know what might happen if a spirit entered as a walk-in, much less what a magi would do.

But, stories tell of a sage who made his own universe inside a rock and by casting off his body would walk into the rock and live there. For people who master casting off the body even death is little more than a short wait while they pick out their next form, and they emerge with full or near full recollection of past lives.

QUOTE(☞Tomber☜ @ Nov 30 2012, 11:25 PM) *

Also this would mean that a person who could do this would be as powerful as the bald man in the wheelchair from X-Men. Or even if this wasn't deadly or dangerous for one or either parties involved, the potential for damage would be incredible considering the potential political or otherwise influential candidates for this.


Not so much X-men, the technique is powerful only in very limited ways. You can leave your body and go elsewhere, if there is an empty container you can enter. This is like death, so death is no longer an issue. If you have nothing to enter you need to make something either by entering a mantra in which case you become the mantra or by making a body of light. Anyone can place their energy body into someone else's body so long as it is empty. If you have ever had or seen a soul retrieval this is what was done. Unless they separate the energy body from consciousness though, they will find themselves back in their own body rather quickly. The thing that makes you powerful like the x-men is knowledge of consciousness.


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Edited for clarity and spelling.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Dec 1 2012, 11:06 PM


--------------------
Cosmic consciousness is devoid of diversity; yet the universe of diversity exists in notion....
We contemplate that reality in which everything exists, to which everything belongs,
from which everything has emerged, which is the cause of everything and which is everything....
The light of [this] self-knowledge alone illumines all experiences. It shines by its own light.
This inner light appears to be outside and to illumine external objects.

-Sage Vasishtha

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☞Tomber☜
post Dec 1 2012, 07:11 PM
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@ Fatherjohn: Do you have a list of recommended reads you would be willing to share that cover or work up to this concept of center of reality? Unfortunately I have not encountered this with my own astral work, but it seems to be such an advanced state that few would fully achieve it. But your points are convincing enough to make me interested in learning more.

@Eria: With magick, the ability to achieve specific objectives are the result of comprehending and applying more general and abstract concepts through personal experience. But maybe that's not always the case because I'm in this thread with more questions than answers myself.

I'm surprised because if this underlining magick allows the magician to do basically whatever then that would mean many other particular branches of magick would be less useful, like working with goetic demons.


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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Jack
post Dec 1 2012, 08:39 PM
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This may be vaguely off topic, but it still seems somewhat applicable. There seems to be a lot of talk about 'empty vessels' as in bodies that are still alive, but with souls that have gone out. As a guy who has made stupid deals with dark things, had something close to a soul death and expelled, or decided to keep, a few ridiculous things inside oh him. It may be best not to screw with an empty form. Who knows, the owner might come home three times as strong for wandering the void, kick the eyeballs out of whatever had taken his place and then re-seat himself in his own body again. Just saying it happens. Also, thanks to all of you for not messing with my body while I was out.

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fatherjhon
post Dec 1 2012, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(☞Tomber☜ @ Dec 1 2012, 08:11 PM) *

Unfortunately I have not encountered this with my own astral work, but it seems to be such an advanced state that few would fully achieve it.


It is and few do so its not surprising it has not crossed your path. Astral Travel and this technique only look alike. AP uses the energy body -bound to the physical body by a cord- to explore other realms. The cord prevents you from doing anything more than looking. If you want to leave your body and enter something else you need either a Rainbow body (Buddhist) and a body made of Shen and Qi fused together (Taoist) or a Jiva-Atman that is self-abiding without any attachment to anything (Tantra Yoga). If you lack one of these three you are still bound to a physical form and so cannot take up another. Forcibly separate yourself from your body before you are ready and you will just sit there in space like a dissolving lump of salt.

QUOTE

Do you have a list of recommended reads you would be willing to share that cover or work up to this concept of center of reality?


Moving from body to body is an ability gained by samadhi. There is very little else you need but that. The Tantras translated by Pandit Rajmani Tigunait and Swami Rama cover the theoretical basis for the practice over maybe 6 books, but not the practice itself. The closest thing to a practice manual you will find is a book called the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. It will take you via the yogic approach to gaining samadhi and what to do with it. Another book is the Yoga Upanishads, which is much the same but with more theory.

QUOTE

I'm surprised because if this underlining magick allows the magician to do basically whatever then that would mean many other branches of magick would be less useful, like working with goetic demons.


It is really not magick. It is a siddhi that comes by realizing and then experiencing the Jiva-Atman or individual soul. Like all siddhis it is more impressive than useful. As a tool for meditation it is invaluable. For anything else, it is a few hours of prep for ten minutes of aimless fun. Samadhi on the other hand is a very, very useful practice. It is the union of form and essence (or in yoga the union of I-am-ness with an object of meditation), by samadhi you can know the object as well as you know yourself.

People can spend their lives training for samadhi and not get it. Anyone can pick up the books of Solomon or the Black Raven and get results.


--------------------
Cosmic consciousness is devoid of diversity; yet the universe of diversity exists in notion....
We contemplate that reality in which everything exists, to which everything belongs,
from which everything has emerged, which is the cause of everything and which is everything....
The light of [this] self-knowledge alone illumines all experiences. It shines by its own light.
This inner light appears to be outside and to illumine external objects.

-Sage Vasishtha

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Goibniu
post Dec 2 2012, 01:52 AM
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vehicletransference/

Just as a warning, some of the people in the group are a bit unbalanced or on ego trips. But if you are interested, it does have a fair number of files on techniques. I haven't tried it out though personally.


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Kath
post Jun 25 2013, 07:03 AM
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Fatherjhon's input is the way I'd look into it.

You can find the books he references on sacred-texts.com

However, without a background in yoga/tantra, I do not think the texts would prove particularly helpful. For example, here is a line taken from the yoga sutras of patanjali:
QUOTE
2.41 As a result of contentment there is purity of mind, one-pointedness, control of the senses, and fitness for the vision of the self.

In this passage, 'contentment', 'purity of mind', 'one pointedness', 'control of the senses', 'fitness for the vision', and 'the self'... are all terms that need to be expanded upon with background knowledge in the vedas, without that underlying comprehension, the sentence is empty of it's intended meaning.

Ultimately, I think there may be as many as 'several' ways to accomplish what's asked in this thread. But none of the approaches I can think of would involve a formulaic ritual or anything quick&easy, but rather a lifelong (or longer) dedication to transformative spiritual development & evolution.

This post has been edited by Kath: Jun 25 2013, 07:05 AM


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