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 Summoning Lucifer, Anyone?
bym
post May 6 2005, 05:35 PM
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Not only that but Jupiter is a gas giant...is it not? I've heard about the theory that Venus was equated with Lucifer but I didn't find it plausible. Oh, well... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)


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Mr_Merlin
post May 6 2005, 08:40 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Let me dig out the supporting research I have for the Venus theoy of Venus and the collision with Jupiter ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)

I'll get back to you ...

One of the sources is Immanuel Velikovsky ... another is a Brian Desborough ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

One of Velikovsky's books is Worlds In Collision (Pocket Books Simon & Shuster New York 1950) and Earth In Upheaval (Dell Publishing Ltd New York 1955) ...

The only notable publication by Brian Desborough is The Great Pyramid Mystery, Tomb, Occult Initiation Ceremony or What? (source unknown) ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)


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Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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Alafair
post May 7 2005, 08:22 AM
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I always thought that Velikovsky was a bit of a flim-flam man (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

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mediocracy
post May 7 2005, 10:03 AM
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http://skepdic.com/velikov.html

"The less one knows about science, the more plausible Velikovsky's scenario appears...." --Leroy Ellenberger

"Velikovsky is certainly ingenious. His explanations of parallels among ancient myths are very entertaining, interesting and apparently plausible. His explanation of universal collective amnesia of these worlds in collision is highly amusing and equally improbable. Imagine we're on earth 3,500 years ago when an object about the same size as our planet is coming at us from outer space! It whacks us a couple of times, spins our planet around so that its rotation stops and starts again, creates great heat and upheavals from within the planet and yet the most anyone can remember about these catastrophes are things like "....and the sun stood still" [Joshua 10: 12-13] and other stories of darkness, storms, upheavals, plagues, floods, snakes and bulls in the sky, etc. No one in ancient times mentions an object the size of earth colliding with us. You'd think someone amongst these ancient peoples, who all loved to tell stories, would have told their grandchildren about it. Someone would have passed it on. But no one on earth seems to remember such an event."

Flim Flam seems as good a description as any. It amazes me that people believe this stuff despite the evidence at hand. The universe is a very interesting place, there really is no need to make up this kind of rubbish.

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Saintgeorge
post May 7 2005, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE
but he is quite disillusional...has been for some time.


For a very long time I think, isen't that why he was cast down in the first place ?. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/7.gif) LOL.

QUOTE
Can't Good and Evil STOP fighting???


Is it not possible that if you achieve your purpose and destroy the dulistic
nature of the multiverse, that we shall all disapear in a puff of never, never land smoke,?

without the dark how can the light exist, without evil [so called] how is good
recognised?, it is true to say that out of many good deeds much evil is achieved,
and out of some terrible deeds great benifits appear. As one progresses along the
magickal path, one realises that to embrace both dark and light equally is desirable.

Luciifer, God/Godesses, these are symbols humans create, and useful as tools of work, as are all our entites, who are as real or unreal as we ourselves like to make them.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)


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=========================================
互户互户互户互户互户互户互
=========================================

You are Ammi-seshet, Destructrice, Protectrice!
You are the Terror In front of Which Demons Tremble!
You are Desire! You are Life! That Which Burns Eternally!

=========================================
互户互户互户互户互户互户互
=========================================

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Uni Reflections
post May 7 2005, 02:47 PM
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Well of course I know all about that... I've spend two tyears researching the conflict!!!

And yet... people fail to relize there's a way to be both light and dark... They cant conceive it, NOR DO THEY CLICK ON MY LINKS!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/censored.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry_pissed_off_emoticon.gif)

Sorry...

This post has been edited by UniOne: May 7 2005, 02:50 PM


--------------------
Purple Pill level:

Unification Theorium:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/UnificationTheorem.doc
Uni-Force:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/Uni-Force.doc


But now I am a Lord of the Monestary of Balance, boy have i come far in one year...
http://fraterhabilus.proboards61.com/index.cgi
http://supremeunione.proboards45.com/

The three parts of any magicakl process: Visualization{Imagination} + Intent{Emotion, Willpower, and Desire/Want} + Belief {Self-Trust and Self-Belief}

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Mr_Merlin
post May 7 2005, 11:32 PM
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I have witnessed all the reactions to me, 'he of the sweeping statements' and feel joyful at the diversity of the opinions cast .... duality alive at its best ...

I do not truly dismiss anything anyone has said about these matters ... even flim flam ... I merely come to my own conclusion and my viewpoint is that something monstrous occured that changed the earth forever ... I will find supporting evidence about the mammoths which died instantly etc ... and put them forward ....

I love duality and controversy ... but through it I come to my own conclusions ...

My experience of Lucifer still stands ... I have met with no malovolence only benevolence ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif)

I agree that duality is ESSENTIAL for any magician worth his or her salt ... it is necessary (from personal experience) to link with entities of both the left path and the right path ....

Both are necessary tools for what is a magic of the higher mind ...

I am happy with what I know to be true ... and truth ... and what has been earned through painstaking trial and error ... but I will not begrudge he or she who does not find my way the way for them ....

There are so many pathways and so many roads to the truth .... which is the wonder of this field we are all part of ...

More sweeping statements will come on this subject I promise .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: May 7 2005, 11:34 PM


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Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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Wiseone
post May 8 2005, 12:17 AM
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Well something HUGE did happen back than, something that many...were killed by, I'm not talking about the Ice Age or anything. But this is only from testimonials from other entites that I've spoken with and my dragon.*shrugs* Who knows really?


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I am the son of Cain,
I am the son of my Mother,
I am the son of darkness,
I am the Abyss.

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Mr_Merlin
post May 8 2005, 12:37 AM
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Well ... we both can agree on that one then ... for I've been told too about a monumental event ... they type source you cannot present as un-deniable fact sadly ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/banghead.gif)

But like you say who knows?

I have a theory and it is something which is feasible in my eyes ... something I can accept.

But one where Lucifer WASN'T Venus ... Lucifer I'm darn sure is something far more significant ... like a highly evolved being ... and something which was the original point of the thread ...

So ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/locked.gif)


--------------------
Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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Saintgeorge
post May 8 2005, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE
NOR DO THEY CLICK ON MY LINKS!!!


Sorry I did not realize this was an essential requirement of your debate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

QUOTE
: There is a link binding the religions of the earth


So I clicked, and now see why we [you and I that is] cannot take this debate
further, I am totally irreligious and do not subscribe to your basic premise at all.

but good luck to you and brightest blessing on your path
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


--------------------
=========================================
互户互户互户互户互户互户互
=========================================

You are Ammi-seshet, Destructrice, Protectrice!
You are the Terror In front of Which Demons Tremble!
You are Desire! You are Life! That Which Burns Eternally!

=========================================
互户互户互户互户互户互户互
=========================================

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Uni Reflections
post May 8 2005, 09:11 AM
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You don't need religion... you just need believe... The religon is for the Funtimetals, but it still means the same with or without it...


--------------------
Purple Pill level:

Unification Theorium:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/UnificationTheorem.doc
Uni-Force:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/Uni-Force.doc


But now I am a Lord of the Monestary of Balance, boy have i come far in one year...
http://fraterhabilus.proboards61.com/index.cgi
http://supremeunione.proboards45.com/

The three parts of any magicakl process: Visualization{Imagination} + Intent{Emotion, Willpower, and Desire/Want} + Belief {Self-Trust and Self-Belief}

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Mr_Merlin
post May 8 2005, 03:44 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shok.gif) When all beliefs and religions are broken down into their most basic components they are all the same anyway!


--------------------
Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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Uni Reflections
post May 8 2005, 08:10 PM
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Yep... Problem is... the world doesn't see it that way...

I was thinking... If there was a purest of light (Jesus...) then there must be a purest of darkness... but that DOES NOT mean Lucifer is it...

But if he isn't... who is???

This post has been edited by UniOne: May 8 2005, 08:11 PM


--------------------
Purple Pill level:

Unification Theorium:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/UnificationTheorem.doc
Uni-Force:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-2/265334/Uni-Force.doc


But now I am a Lord of the Monestary of Balance, boy have i come far in one year...
http://fraterhabilus.proboards61.com/index.cgi
http://supremeunione.proboards45.com/

The three parts of any magicakl process: Visualization{Imagination} + Intent{Emotion, Willpower, and Desire/Want} + Belief {Self-Trust and Self-Belief}

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Mr_Merlin
post May 9 2005, 01:20 AM
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mmmm ... maybe its a title that can be worn by souls to experience the energy ???? An archetype purely which has never been an actual person ... a thought form projected into the aether ... by ancient magicians who wanted a figurehead or focus for all their darkness ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ?????

Same could therefore be explained for the purest white .... ????

There's been many deities born of a virgin birth with the same story as Christ ... so could the same apply I wonder ... a term of office for souls to experience the collective figurehead of light???

All of existence is after all an experience??? Profound but a ooint worth suggesting ...


--------------------
Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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AdeptusSolarus
post Jun 12 2005, 12:58 PM
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as a Demonolator I guess I have different views on Lucifer than most here. Note that Demonolatry(at least as represented by the former First Temple of Demonolatry)is basically an "underground" religion, thus I can't give details on various beliefs, practices, etc. What I'm posting here can be found on other forums, etc. if you look carefully enough.

Anyway, in Demonolatry, we don't really evoke daemons. We see daemons as gods basically, and therefore we don't practice evocations a la the Goetia, etc. We invoke daemons. Therefore we don't use triangles, bindings, etc. Lucifer is one of the Nine Divinities, the main Daemons in Demonolatry. He is from the element Air, the Twin Eagles. When I have invoked Lucifer, I felt a very powerful, beautiful energy. He specializes in knowledge and enlightment, and I have had profound experiences in those regards. I can't really say the rituals and incantations I used, but suffice to say that you should never command a daemon to appear. You don't need to bind them, and use other methods that basically treat them like crap.

Good luck in your practice.


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BrotherM
post Jun 17 2005, 03:58 PM
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Hi,

I find this thread interesting, and the one account of the evocation of Lucifer, even though I'm not sure if it was tounge in cheek or not, was coincidently quite accurate. I have evoked to the physical Lucifer on more than one occasion, it's not a good idea, but a very worth while event if you live through it. That's all - Kinjo, mate, why do you want to summon this guy?

BrotherM


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bym
post Jun 17 2005, 05:54 PM
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Greetings! My Luciferian Tale was very accurate and told here as a cautionary tale....not that it did much good. I don't think Kinjo really wanted to summon Lucifer than to summon posts and discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

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AdeptusSolarus
post Jun 17 2005, 09:24 PM
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I have worked with Lucifer MANY times. What I and many other Demonolators have seen is that many who attempt to evoke "demons"(in the Christian sense) such as Lucifer, Satan, Leviathan, Ashtaroth, etc. aren't evoking the actual entities, but more god-forms that have gained power as more believe in them, especially due to the advent of Christianity. Many of these so-called demons(in the Christian sense again) were actually pre-Christian gods and goddesses. For example, Ashtaroth is the demonized form of Astarte. Demon comes from the word daimon, meaning guidance, inspiration, etc. They originally didn't have evil connotations. However, with the advent of Christianity, god-forms have been created. Demonolatry, literally the worship of demons, is a pre-Christian practice, based on the Hermetica, which many date to around 3000 BCE. It is mostly an underground religion, though it did have an internet presence for a few years until about 2001(those that remember demonolatry.com, tigrah.org, demonolatry.org, etc. know about this). The book Modern Demonolatry also expounds on our beliefs. If you're really interested, you CAN find caches of the mentioned sites, however you can't just google them.(archive.org is one if you're interested, however most of the in depth information was never online, such as the invocations we use in the daemonic language).

Anyway, at least in my practice, you don't summon or evoke demons, b/c you really don't and can't have the power to do so in the temporal world, as these are eternal gods and goddesses. You can invoke them, and experience their energies, etc.. However, to each his/her own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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AdeptusSolarus
post Jun 17 2005, 10:05 PM
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http://web.archive.org/web/20010212123644/...ium/primer.html

for more info


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TheFates
post Jun 18 2005, 02:58 AM
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First there are many stages of contact. WiseOne can talk to him at a low level stage and find him sweet. But his true nature is gnosis it makes you wise but like the apple kills you. Hence the name light bringer. Then when BYM calls him old school with incense and the like he runs away like a little girl.[sorry about that.]
Mod note - I like 'robust' debate. I DON'T like name calling. Play nice people or you won't be allowed to play at all! I will be keeping a close eye on this thread. - Mediocracy
It is still a large part of the faith of blavestys system that if you have knowledge it will increase karma retribution .In Nepalese Hinduism the worst reincarnations are saved for wayward priests[it's a dog not hell demon]
To put it simply Lucifer is light it can be a laser or it can let you read the Book of Law.
慖抦 just a over sour archangel Lucifer

This post has been edited by mediocracy: Jun 18 2005, 06:58 AM

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BrotherM
post Jun 18 2005, 05:32 AM
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bym,

Good work mate, my experience was very similar, right own to the long prep time and long evocation. I'm not sure what you used as a sigil, but I didn't use one. Instead I spent a long time "learning" about Big L and getting to know his current through path working. When I felt I knew the current well enough I used a free style ritual to summon him.

I had learnt enough through that process to know not to use a circle or triangle when calling him - I think it saved me actually, but damn it nearly blew my mind. I also blacked out on my first evocation, but on my second I was able to retain conciousness.

I would agree, I would caution against summon L until you are well and truly ready. Not only did the evocation nearly kill me, it started a series of events that totally changed my life

Mad love

BrotherM


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bym
post Jun 18 2005, 05:58 AM
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Greetings! LOL!
Thank you BrotherM, the incident was eye opening.
To TheFates, it was rather humorous that you thought of my reaction as "runs away like a little girl..." Obviously sensitive observation. At the time of this experiment, over fourty years ago, there was not much available to the general public concerning any of this stuff. Not knowing the resources available to you or your mindset (though by your remarks I can certainly ascertain) it would be difficult to judge just what your reaction would be. Maybe sixteen year olds of this day summon Lucifer on a regular basis. I wish them well.
I happen to prefer Evocation with Materialization. There is little room for error or ego posturing. IMHO, fear can be a healthy learning tool. As far as woman profiling you have alot to learn. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yucky.gif)


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Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

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TheFates
post Jun 18 2005, 09:59 AM
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BYMy okay I was saying evocation can be strong or weak it can be simply commonication[WiseOne]or real big evocation[you] I was stating that the bad effects grow with the rituals power.When I did it was okay and interesting but a little unpleasant I quit early.

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sharzobel
post Jun 18 2005, 07:56 PM
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hello people, i've read all of your posts and found them interesting, but kinjo, i think the closest answer you're going to get for your question is bym's experience.

and like wise one, i have talked to lucifer quite a few times.
now before i say anything, i would also be happy to admit that this luciferian personality could of been a role played by a part of myself that assumed the role to deliver messages to me in that form because it would of been more acceptable or something; IF...that could be proven to me.

yeah, this lucifer guy talked to me but not like "thou or thy", he was very real but with a sinister/black personality (black humor?) but was very realistic about the things he's shared with me.
like for instance, i use to frequent in this market around the corner from me and there was this girl who worked in the deli department.
i didn't like this girl because to be honest, i have a problem staring at people, but it's not like i'm x-raying through them, it's just sometimes i blank out, and eventhough i'm looking at you, i'm not looking at you, in fact, you're not even there until i come back into it, and you come into focus looking at me like WTF?
okay, so this happened to shorty, and she made a stupid look at me like duh, or something, and she's done this quite a few times afterwards.
i didn't like her because of that, so due to this store being short staffed, sometimes the deli girl would work the counter, and on one of these occasions is when lu-stepped to me and started conversating.
i guess to prove that he was real, he told me that the girl really liked me, and oozed at the thought that i wanted her, and all i needed to do was be ___________(don't remember).
well, i didn't believe him, (i can skeptical) but something happened where the girl was so fu-king passionate with me, friendly and playful-i was shocked but decided not to step to her, and went my way.
yeah-he's like this.
i haven't talked to him for quite some time, but i have found him (or that lucifer personality) to be sly, wicked, and smart.

another thing, on one of my goetic adventures, one of the imps said, "before the white lord and the black lord can meet, some sort of an arraingement must be made with lucifer."-i still don't know what the hell that means.

another thing, from what i know, lucifer isn't really his name. i word originated from the romans like "lux or lucero" meaning enlightener.
how the romans accepted this personae or whatever before adopting christianity is unknown to me, but they were known to take from other peoples cultures (mostly those that have been conquered) and incorporate it into their culture.
and believe what you want, but we are definately still living under roman influence.


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Mr_Merlin
post Jun 23 2005, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE
When I have invoked Lucifer, I felt a very powerful, beautiful energy. He specializes in knowledge and enlightment, and I have had profound experiences in those regards.


Well said! My own experience too ... I rarely partake in rituals (if ever these days) .. but I do invoke entities ... for visualisation role playing ... the times I've invoked Lucifer to become Lucifer to experience that essence ... I've only ever experienced a beautiful, gentle energy which has been the basis of a visualisation steeped in enlightenment ... pathworkings of ancient places which the world has forgotten.

I understood from other workings that the 'evil' Lucifer in the modern day is as a result of the religious dogma ... because the modern church doesn't want mankind to know the true persona of Lucifer. Thus the countless ages of fear created by the church with regard to Lucifer has helped to create a veneer image over the original archetypal image of Lucifer The Light Bringer ... a veneer which matches the tale weaved by the church of Lucifer being the devil. Dogma in my view .... my philosophy is always based on personal experience and from personal experience Lucifer ain't no devil!


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Hey! This life is just a dream. As in any dream the sleeper can assume control. Magic is gaining that control and using that awakening to full advantage

Married for life, to my devoted wife, who I have neglected recently but will do no more..........

A Light In The Darkness Blog; A LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS

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Satarel
post Jun 25 2005, 02:11 AM
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There is some suggestion that Lucifer and Satan are separate individuals.

Satan's original name was Sammael, not Lucifer.


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Star
post Sep 23 2005, 08:15 PM
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I am very new to this so don't destroy me if I mess up alot but please correct any mistakes you see in my line of reasoning.


If there is an original 'Creature' such as an original Zeus and the "new" Zeus that new thinking or religion created to protray this being.

There is a chance you could summon either? The true Zeus/Lucifer/Whatever

And another that you would summon the Entity created by everyones new view?

Ill try to make more sense since i know im kinda wigging out here.

If I use conventional 'Christian' Methods to summon Lucifer I may get an being of evil simply becuase I am assuming that is what Im getting according to the Literature I have learned to summon him with.

But if I use the original Bringer of Light work I would get a different being>?

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Adrianna
post Sep 27 2005, 10:09 PM
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Initiate
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QUOTE(Star @ Sep 23 2005, 09:15 PM)
If I use conventional 'Christian' Methods to summon Lucifer I may get an being of evil simply becuase I am assuming that is what Im getting according to the Literature I have learned to summon him with.

But if I use the original Bringer of Light work I would get a different being>?

I believe the answer to this would be yes. The will behind the magician's intention for contacting Lucifer is different in each instance.

The Christian method would be to bind Lucifer against his will for your will. The magician would bind him because in the Christian sense, he should be feared. Therefore, IMO, if you approach it that way, you start with your own fears and manifest them from your own will. This could produce a very negative and frightening experience.

On the other hand, if you invited Lucifer as the Bringer of Light, you would not fear him and would have an entirely different experience because your will is different at that point and free from fear.

Just my opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've had only positive experiences with Lucifer. I use invocation though, and don't fear him, nor do I attempt to bind him.


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BloodArchon
post Sep 29 2005, 05:30 PM
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Well I've been looking at your replies and I just have to say this, seeing how Lucifer is the BIG CHEESE in the underworld he probably is busy with whatever he does to pass the time. So maybe the reason that some of you have had nice experiences with him and some of you have gotten the crap scared out of you is because you've caught him at a bad time. I mean if I was an god like spirit I would be kinda pissed to if people kept bugging me to talk, but then again that's just me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)


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ObsidianLF
post Oct 2 2005, 10:15 AM
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Lucifer is the Bearer of Light, and because of that, I'm on VERY good terms with and like him alot.

This post has been edited by ObsidianLF: Oct 2 2005, 10:16 AM


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