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 Magician, Sorcerer, Wizard?, What do you consider yourself?
MagicIsMight
post Jul 6 2006, 05:59 PM
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Good evening,

This is perhaps a topic that has been mentioned quite regularly, but what in your opinion should a male practicing magic call himself? Why do some choose to call themselves "magician" instead of "wizard." Next, when should a male, or female for that matter, begin to call themselves by these different names? It is sad to think that an armchair magician is calling himself a great and powerful mage. I understand that these different names have to do a lot with your background, but I thought I'd get everyone's imput on the classification of these sorts of men and women alike. Shouldn't a woman who practices magic be considered a witch? Or shouldn't a male who does the same thing consider himself a magician? Let's keep things simple, right? There seem to always be complications that arise with the term. What do you consider yourself and why? What's your background? Any thoughts would be a very interesting read.

Sincerely,

Mr. Curi


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UnKnown1
post Jul 6 2006, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE(curi @ Jul 6 2006, 07:59 PM) *
Good evening,

This is perhaps a topic that has been mentioned quite regularly, but what in your opinion should a male practicing magic call himself? Why do some choose to call themselves "magician" instead of "wizard." Next, when should a male, or female for that matter, begin to call themselves by these different names? It is sad to think that an armchair magician is calling himself a great and powerful mage. I understand that these different names have to do a lot with your background, but I thought I'd get everyone's imput on the classification of these sorts of men and women alike. Shouldn't a woman who practices magic be considered a witch? Or shouldn't a male who does the same thing consider himself a magician? Let's keep things simple, right? There seem to always be complications that arise with the term. What do you consider yourself and why? What's your background? Any thoughts would be a very interesting read.

Sincerely,

Mr. Curi


I do Sorcery Shamanism and some Ceremonial Magick. A Wizard would not be a bad term but I like the word Priest. A woman can have any title that a man could. She could be a Sorcereress. As a man is a Shaman so she could be a Shamaness. I think Wizard is a title without gender. At least I have never heard anyone call thier self a Wizardess. So a female Wizard would still be a Wizard.

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bym
post Jul 6 2006, 07:46 PM
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Perhaps we are placing abit too much emphasis on titles. They invariably are used to 'pigeonhole' one and we run imto the danger of molding ourselves to the title (or viceversa). In the long run people are labelled by their peers with or without help. When I was younger titles meant alot more to me than they do now. Pick one or wait until one picks you, just live your life in the best way you know how. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Jul 6 2006, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE(bym @ Jul 6 2006, 09:46 PM) *
Perhaps we are placing abit too much emphasis on titles. They invariably are used to 'pigeonhole' one and we run imto the danger of molding ourselves to the title (or viceversa). In the long run people are labelled by their peers with or without help. When I was younger titles meant alot more to me than they do now. Pick one or wait until one picks you, just live your life in the best way you know how. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Also, they all tend to mean different things to different people. My peers generally use all of the titles interchangably just to refer to 'a person who does magick', largely dependent on the most recent 'theme' of discussion - if we're discussing witchcraft, everyone's a witch, if we're discussing sorcerery, everyone's a sorcerer... But, if you tell ten people you're a sorcerer - which is something you very rarely have any reason to say - then they may all think something different.

If someone asks, I generally just reply, "I'm an occultist." or "I have an affinity for the occult."

All it really does is tell people that you are into some kind of magick, or that you apparently believe in it anyway, or at least want to. To say 'sorcerer' or 'shaman' or 'mage' - mostly buzz words that catch everyone's interest. Less is more...

peace


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Khenti_Amenti
post Jul 8 2006, 03:23 PM
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At the same time, for the Egyptians names where a part of the soul and knowing someones or something true name meant having some power over him or it.
In Ceremonial Magick Orders titles often have a highly symbolic meaning wich spills over in the actual Magick and is a part of the Initiation.

I myself call myself by any of the titles if i use any.

The etymology of the titles is rather interessting too.

Magician, Mage- Persian priest called "Magi". *Funny enough not actually Magicians.

Sorcerer- From Latin "Sors", Fate.

Warlock- Disputed, either from "Vaer loega", oath breaker. a reason for many Witches to not aprove of the title for a male Witch.
Silly ofcouse since "Pagan" and many other words have also been used in a deregatory meaning.
Could also be from "Varda lockur", Spirit caller.

Hexe- Propably from someone outside the hedge (safe territory).

Hedgewitch- as above. The hedge surounding the village or town is "safe", the witch travels outside it (out of the known universe so to speak).

Wicca- Frm the same root as to wick. The Witch folds or wicks reality. Knotmagick comes to mind.
Female version is Wicce.

Wizard, Wizzard- From the word "wiz", wise.

Witta- from "wit", to know.

There are a few more but their not really apliceable to the western form of mystery or only to certain cultures within it.

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xXDaemonReignXx
post Jan 3 2007, 09:09 PM
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I like the name sorcerer the best
I consider a witch or wizard to do magick by casting spells and a sorcerer to do magick by calling on the aid of spirits
plus i just like the way it sounds.


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xXDaemonReignXx
post Jan 3 2007, 09:15 PM
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I think warlock has a nice ring to it.
It depends on what you do someone could call the self a necromancer.
whatever glove fits the hand i guess.

This post has been edited by daemon_reign: Jan 3 2007, 09:19 PM


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TiacSway
post Jan 3 2007, 11:14 PM
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I refer to myself as a "witch" personally.

I've never really taken much time to think why i would call myself a "witch" instead of anything else. I guess it just fit becuase i practice "withcraft".

.02

Tiac


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V. Grimm
post Jan 4 2007, 07:06 AM
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I believe the original question was answered at length already, so I guess I'll answer the secondary one.

Occultist, primarily Black Magician, Necromancer, Sorcerer, and Chaote.

I'd also like to add that Black Magic as it is titled is mostly a misnomer, in most cultures magic by colors referred to "black" as protection magic.

And that "Necromancer" descends from "Nekros" - Greek for Corpse, and "Manteia" - Greek for Prophecy.

This post has been edited by Isaiah: Jan 4 2007, 07:10 AM


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DarK
post Jan 4 2007, 07:28 AM
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It's really a hard question, if I were to call myself anything I'd have a million titles.

As far as "Witch" and "Sorceror" are concerned, I'd be more inclined to call myself as a Sorceror, by universal definition.

My personal label is....

(myself).

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Lonshi
post Jan 4 2007, 09:29 AM
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I tend to think of myself as a magician, as I practice magick eclectically. While I consider my practices spiritual, I do not subscribe to a specific theology or dogma. Also, I do not think a separate designation is required to specify sex.

As regards the term witch, I tend to associate this with individuals, both male and female, who practice Wicca or have similar religious practices. I do realize that not all Wiccans prefer this designation, and some who are not Wiccans also prefer the term witch.

Overall, I have no qualms with whatever term an individual opts to use to describe themselves, even if their definition of that term differs from mine. In my opinion, the terms are simply an effort to describe something, and like many terms, there is often a lack of consensus.

Generally, I find that because occult designations are so ambiguous, by themselves, they frequently cannot be relied upon to accurately portray an individual or their interests.

Ailsa (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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A_Smoking_Fox
post Jan 4 2007, 10:54 AM
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i don't use a name for myself. I used to call me a million of things, depending on what subject i was studying at that time.
First i was a wicca, or witch, when i was practising mainly wicca.
When i was mainly doing ceremonial magick i called myself a ceremonial mage.
Then i was a chaote, when my interest shifted towards that
When my focus moved to taoism and other eastern philosophies, i called myself a taoist.
Then, when i focused more mainly on buddhism, i was a buddhist.

Now i just am, and dont't care one bit about what title i have.
If my friends ask about my philosohpies, i say that i am a buddhist, because people seem to easily accept buddhism as an alternative faith.
Its just a lie, although i focus highly on enlightenment in my practises, but its to ease their mind and to avoid conversations they or i do not want having.


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Thorn
post Jan 4 2007, 07:14 PM
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I guess generally I go by 'witch' if I'm in a position where a title is needed, but I find that everyone sees certain titles like witch, sorcerer, shaman, whatever differently. So for the most part I just say I'm 'magickally inclined' and leave it at that:P

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matt
post Jan 6 2007, 10:13 PM
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i was wondering if you could give me some insight on how to get my root hold in magick i dont have any one that could give me any help i read some of your post and you seem to be well educated in the arts and just thought you might be able to tell me what i need to get started such as suppliers and maybe some stuff that would be good reading
thanx

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Xenomancer
post Jan 7 2007, 05:50 PM
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I am who I am.

Thats all that i really need to know. I am myself. I am me. I just am. *shrug*

But if I could actually have a title, people would call me either a "Sage" or "Sensei"

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LordArthur
post Jan 11 2007, 11:35 AM
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I consider myself a Magician, Mage or Omnimancer (since I practice Omnimancy). I mostly use the nomenclature of Mage for myself. I started with Norse Runes and dabbled in Enochian about 15 years ago for a year or two before going the way I went to give more background.

I'm not sure if a male/female difference in terms should matter at all, but in some magical "cultures" it seems to as it suits their needs.

I suppose names are used based on the images it gives oneself, which obviously includes their familiarity. What one calls oneself has much to do with what they want others to think about them when they hear the name. To give others the same images about themselves that they are trying to show of themselves.

The problem is, everyone has different images with different spins on them. There are no standards, partially because everyone wants THEIR standard to be standard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) An ocean of magical practitioners that can't interact well because the definitions they use for the same terms are different even though they use the same language. Sad really.

Definitions of names are too influenced by Pop Culture (either by movies or other media) who didn't really care what the original definitions were anyway, so their definitions become the new ones, which just confuses matters more. The example of Witch being a female, and a Warlock being Male in my own head comes from the TV series "Bewitched". Wiccans say that all members of their faith are witches. There are many witches that aren't wiccan. Some use the Bewitched definitions, some don't.

In the end, definitions seem to be defined by the masses, even if academia says it should be otherwise. Sometimes academia wins, but for more often it doesn't. It's kind of like trying to define what's "pagan". There is no one answer. Mage, Wizard, Witch, Warlock, etc. become umbrella terms. Best you can hope for if you want more information is for them to talk about what they do more directly. Best definition of WHEN to start calling yourself such names is when you feel its right. Without a hard definition of such terms, that's the best one can hope for.

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Kraussisus
post Apr 1 2007, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE(LordArthur @ Jan 11 2007, 01:35 PM) *
I consider myself a Magician, Mage or Omnimancer (since I practice Omnimancy).


I'm alittle confused. From my knowledge of the suffix "-mancy", Omnimancy would mean being able to predict events from anything?

When I was little, (Some would probably still consider me little) I used to have my tiny grimoire that I made out of sewed together leaves and all my other magic tools, I would think "If dad ever found out I was a witch, he'd disown me!"
But, later, I began to dislike the name. It wasn't for what it represented or the way it sounded, it was just a spontaneous dislike.
So I tried out many different names. I stuck with "chaote" for awhile when I happened to stumble upon that particular area of magick.
But then I began to dislike that name as well.
Now, I usually just say that "magically influenced" and people call me what they want.


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Now, you throw one end of the string in and your past self holding the original end catches it.
Where's the fourth end, then?

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LordArthur
post Apr 25 2007, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE(Kraussisus @ Apr 1 2007, 06:40 PM) *
I'm alittle confused. From my knowledge of the suffix "-mancy", Omnimancy would mean being able to predict events from anything?


The name was derived by the more modern interpretation of "-mancy". In the original latin, you are correct, it would mean "divination by", however in the modern context the suffix -mancy is greatly expanded and includes the concept of magic. Hence "necromancy" isn't considered simply divination by the dead by most people, but a magical system involving the dead, which CAN including divination by the dead. I don't speak latin, and it's likely you don't either, so it's generally not a concern by most.

The Omni part more refers to the many "schools"/divisions of magic practiced within the system that became too numerous to put under a simplier title.

I hope that answers your question.

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Fearn
post Apr 27 2007, 01:03 PM
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I have a few different terms I use, and I usually use all of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Witch-I use this is reference to Witchcraft, and by witchcraft I mean the practice of magic

Pagan/Irish Reconstructionist-I use this in reference to my religious beliefs, however when I am around close minded people I just use the term "in my religion."

So in my coven, we are Witches. We practice magic, and keep a book of spells as well as herbal remides, crystal magic, Divination etc. We may invoke a God/ess for some reason, and anyone who doesn't want to work with that god needn't come.

In my coven we have 2 Wiccan Witches, a Buddhist Witch, an Athiest Witch, a Christian Witch (Just as a note she has like a million reasons why she can still be a christian and a witch), and Me (whatever the heck I am (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif))...


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Lucian
post Apr 27 2007, 02:24 PM
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Ave

I was going back over some old topics on OccultForums and I passed by this idea again, that Wizard just means Wise person. I mean, would you go around calling yourself exceptionally wise? Just like in martial arts, if you call yourself a Master, you aren't. It is more of a title that the people around you will grace you with if you are worthy of it.

That being said, I like to be called Todd (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Stop worrying about titles and get to work!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Light In Extension


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Aurelius
post May 1 2007, 11:18 AM
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From my studies ive found many terms and heres what ive found;

mage - tends towards someone who works with generaly more power

sorcerer - is more about the magic its self, usaly self motivated

wizard - someone who seeks all forms of knowlege


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beleti
post May 25 2007, 03:49 PM
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I consider myself to be a Mage. I believe it is all up to that individuals personal preference although what sort of title they choose should compliment the path work they have chosen. As for myself I have always worked with pure energy for the most part with the main focus being manipulations with the use of Will and Intent. I however have been know to utilize herbs crystals and candles to amplify my Will and to focus my Intent. The title Mage in my impression sums up what I do.

There is no right or wrong way to use these titles it simply comes down to what you feel amplifies your actions the most efficient!!

Beleti


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Silver Dragon
post May 30 2007, 05:53 PM
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I try to avoid giving myself any sort of title.



Over time, you risk ego attachments ("Not FROM me, but THROUGH me" is how I would describe my system.)

This post has been edited by The Sorceress: May 30 2007, 06:12 PM


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Eroscupidonamor
post Aug 21 2007, 08:43 AM
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Non nobis Domine... non nobis...

Wise thought sorceress... hey that's a title! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)


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Uni_Verse
post Aug 22 2007, 09:15 PM
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Actually... there are particular associations with the names.

A Magician is a "miracle worker" of the One. Its original ties were to a practitioner of Hermetics, although in modern day it is more associate with Jewish esotericism.

They get their power from a higher source, that which unifies the all.


A Wizard is a master of the Will. A person who does not necessarily believe in a higher power.

They get their power simply through force of Will.

A Sorcerer is more akin to what most people consider a "Black Magician"

Rather than asking spirits to work with them, they force them to do so. Similar to the Wizard who utilizes their Will Power, the Sorcerer does the same - but invokes words of power as curses rather than with reverence.

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Fledermaus
post Oct 2 2007, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE(Uni_Verse @ Aug 22 2007, 10:15 PM) *
Actually... there are particular associations with the names.

A Sorcerer is more akin to what most people consider a "Black Magician"

Rather than asking spirits to work with them, they force them to do so. Similar to the Wizard who utilizes their Will Power, the Sorcerer does the same - but invokes words of power as curses rather than with reverence.


I don't agree with you on that statement. A Wizard is the "Black Magician" and a Sorcerer is one who mesmerises and is glamorous. A true sorcerer works with nature, becomes nature and is enthralled by nature.


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Uni_Verse
post Oct 6 2007, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE("Fledermaus")
a Sorcerer is one who mesmerises and is glamorous


Sounds to me like a "Black Magician" - what is the point of a glamour? Just be yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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shamanwizard
post Oct 6 2007, 04:45 PM
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well, according to the ancients, the term sorcerer its different than the term wizard or magician, wizards and magians are seekers of wisdom thru magick,sorcerers are seekers of power thru magick, so I considerd myself more like a wizard or magician apprentice than a sorcerer, I also acept the term shaman or medicine man, and also there is male witches, so basically there is also female wizards, sorcerers, magicians and shamans, let me remind all that magick its an art that was made more powerful by women than men, so this terms are for both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/witch.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wandwizard.gif) we are all brothers and sisters under this great art!!!!!!!!!


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Oct 6 2007, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(wizardgryphon @ Oct 6 2007, 06:45 PM) *
let me remind all that magick its an art that was made more powerful by women than men, so this terms are for both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/witch.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wandwizard.gif) we are all brothers and sisters under this great art!!!!!!!!!


I'll agree that we're all connected by a common field of interests, but it is impossible to back up the claim that magick was made more powerful by either women or men. Magick isn't powerful, the people who work with it are 'powerful' - as it were, anyway, really they're just strong willed and intelligent, and know how to manipulate the systems of reality to their ends. Magick is simply the application of universal law, and the Law predates manifested gender as we know it. It has nothing to do with being 'powerful.'

The differences between the official meanings of any 'title' simple come from the fact that they all originate in different cultures, who had different languages as well as different descriptions of what magick is, how it works, and what it's for. But regardless of that culture's official definition of their word for 'magick user' - whether it implies someone with spiritual power, or simply someone who utilizes occult sciences of some kind, the element that binds all of those titles together is the fact that they all simply mean, "One who uses obscure/occult means/actions to achieve spiritual/supernormal results."

Mincing words over the meaning of a particular title is pointless - if the world was one culture, the differences would mean more, and the individual titles would describe the different ways that people do magick. As it is, it's just a different cultural take on what's going on and why. Some words were even adapted by foreign cultures or conquering civilizations and used to mean something that became misunderstood as magickal when those cultures lost their foundations and were absorbed by others. If you were to work magick before people of any of the various cultures, they wouldn't call you by whatever title you have picked for yourself, they would call you by whatever they normally use, and it would mean the same thing to them. Regardless of what kind of magick you use or what you use it for, you're still utilizing portions of the same Universal Law, no matter how different or focused your practice is.

I think the most universal title you could take if you had to have one would be "Occultist" - simply someone who studies and/or practices occult techniques, which basically covers everything not a part of mainstream science.

And besides, as we evolve as a culture and the veils of obscurity are slowly brushed away from magick all together, there won't be any need for titles to describe what is essentially just your meta-profession. If everyone in the world was a doctor, we wouldn't call them doctors, we'd call them people. The only reason we use them now is to talk about who does magick and who doesn't.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Oct 6 2007, 05:28 PM


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Koreku
post Oct 14 2007, 12:54 PM
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Hmm... I'll have to go with Mage, if only for the fact that it seems to fit what I do. Magician seems like a fake-ish word (ie, stage magician). Wizard just doesn't seem to fit, somehow. Priest seems too religious (I am not part of a magickal religion, I just practice it). Sorcerer also seems to fit as much as mage, but doesn't sound as cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Somehow I've always liked the word "Mage". I think it's because, for some reason, the picture I get from Mage is a young, ambitious, powerful, truth-seeking, overall just... cool magick user, so I've always called myself by that name. Also, the word sounds inspirational. I know it's odd, but whenever I think of the word or something I want to write a song, work on my book or write a poem.

This post has been edited by Koreku: Oct 14 2007, 12:55 PM

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