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 Q&a: Lbrp And The Pentagram Rituals, What do you want to know about the pentagram rituals?
Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 11 2007, 09:04 AM
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The LRP, the GRP, and the SPR seem to come up over and over again. I consider these foundational rituals and even those who do not use them at least started this path with the study of them. Yet there seems every month another question about them and from the questions there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding out there.

It has been suggested to me that I should write up a class at least on the lesser pentagram ritual but I am unable to do so for various reasons. Mainly much of the nitty gritty elements and inner energy work with the vibrations and all I learned through membership in my order and due to my oath I cannot discuss them. So in essence if I did in fact write a class it would be pretty much what is already written and diluted enough that there would be no point.

But it occurs to me that I might be able to answer specific questions that anyone might have. Obviously I will answer them as best as I can and if it encroaches upon my oath I will just dance around it or just not answer the question. It is a pain but it is the best I can do.

So if anyone has anything they have always wanted to know about any of the pentagram rituals then go ahead and ask.


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Seth'sCall
post May 13 2007, 12:45 AM
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Greetings Nero,

Thanks for the this post, for i still have tons of Q's about the rituals and as i study further, one answer seem to give birth to 3 or more Q's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif).

Starting with LBRP -

1. What does the 'sign of the Enterer' and the 'Sign of Silence' mean?
2. What is the meaning of 'Sign of Osiris slain'?
3. What do the colors of the Pentagrams, Circle & Hexagram signify?

Thanks again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

This post has been edited by Seth'sCall: May 13 2007, 12:46 AM

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Mchawi
post May 13 2007, 06:47 AM
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Is it viable to have a closing seal in each pent in the lbrp? If so what sign and prehaps god name should/could be used ?

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 14 2007, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE(Seth'sCall @ May 13 2007, 02:45 AM) *
1. What does the 'sign of the Enterer' and the 'Sign of Silence' mean?

The sign of the enterer otherwise called the projection sign is the sign of Horus the elder. It does as the name suggests and projects the energy of the vibrated divine name toward that quarter and pentagram. The sign is a forceful sign of Horus, reference Geburah and the 27th path of Peh which are associated with mars and Horus.

The sign of silence is the sign of Hoor-par-kraat, or Horus the younger. The babe in the blue egg of silence. It is a protection sign. It stops and protects you from the energy you just projected with the sign of the enterer from rebounding back at yourself.

QUOTE(Seth'sCall @ May 13 2007, 02:45 AM) *
2. What is the meaning of 'Sign of Osiris slain'?

You are forming a cross, sacrifice in order to be reborn and transformation as Osiris was. Also a reference to tiphareth.

QUOTE(Seth'sCall @ May 13 2007, 02:45 AM) *
3. What do the colors of the Pentagrams, Circle & Hexagram signify?


The pentagrams are seen as blue or white. There is no real significance here as that is just how they appear when viewed on the astral plane. The hexagram is gold as it is the sign of the macrocosm when combined with the pentagrams then you have 5=6 or the great work.


QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 13 2007, 08:47 AM) *
Is it viable to have a closing seal in each pent in the lbrp? If so what sign and prehaps god name should/could be used ?


The sign of silence is the sign that seals the energy flow you just began with the sign of the enterer. The rite as a whole is sealed with the qabalaic cross.


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Seth'sCall
post May 14 2007, 08:47 AM
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Greetings Nero,

Thanks for the reply.

On LBRH

1. What is 'Yod Nun Resh Yod' mean?

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 14 2007, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE(Seth'sCall @ May 14 2007, 10:47 AM) *
1. What is 'Yod Nun Resh Yod' mean?


It spells INRI in hebrew.

EDIT:
Instead of just answering the question out right let's see if you can figure it out yourself. Where is Yod Resh and Nun on the tree of life and how does that relate to IAO?


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Mchawi
post May 14 2007, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE
The sign of silence is the sign that seals the energy flow you just began with the sign of the enterer. The rite as a whole is sealed with the qabalaic cross.


I don't use the sign of the enterer, in some texts its advised to ''stab'' the pent to charge it. Personally I amass the elemental energy, bringing it up from my energy points, collecting it from my aura into a ball before throwing it into the pent/hex projecting the vibration after it whilst ''stabbing'' its center. Only use the sign of silence at the very end of all the rituals.

As it is an earth banishing ritual I guess it'd make sence to use the sign for taurus. Haven't been able to try it out yet, do get the feeling that it may be too vacumous.

Hope to have some questions regarding the invoking rituals soon. Can't think of any other questions for now.

Thanks

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 14 2007, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 14 2007, 10:53 AM) *
I don't use the sign of the enterer, in some texts its advised to ''stab'' the pent to charge it. Personally I amass the elemental energy, bringing it up from my energy points, collecting it from my aura into a ball before throwing it into the pent/hex projecting the vibration after it whilst ''stabbing'' its center. Only use the sign of silence at the very end of all the rituals.

As it is an earth banishing ritual I guess it'd make sence to use the sign for taurus. Haven't been able to try it out yet, do get the feeling that it may be too vacumous.

Hope to have some questions regarding the invoking rituals soon. Can't think of any other questions for now.

Thanks


I am not sure what you mean. The LBRP and the LIRP has no elemental correspondences. In it's performance you should use the two signs, always together, as they help with the energy. The greater and supreme version does have elemental correspondences and the pentagram of earth does use the sign of Taurus. So if you wanted to just banish earth then use the Greater Ritual of the Pentagram and use the earth pentagram in each quarter with the sign.


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Mchawi
post May 14 2007, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE(Nero @ May 14 2007, 10:11 AM) *
I am not sure what you mean. The LBRP and the LIRP has no elemental correspondences.


You confused me with this last time, ok the LBRP dosen't have elemental correspondances but thats only because one is banishing the elements at each quater leaving space behind for the fith element, spirit. If its a banishing ritual what are you banishing at each quater exactly if not the base elements for all things?

As such it then makes sence to seal each pent with a sign of some sort as the sign of silence seals and ends the entire ritual and the LBRP is only the start of the prescribed daily rituals.

Not there enough to talk on the Lesser Invoking Ritual but again, what are you invoking if not an element or aspect of said element?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif)

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 14 2007, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 14 2007, 11:27 AM) *
You confused me with this last time, ok the LBRP dosen't have elemental correspondances but thats only because one is banishing the elements at each quater leaving space behind for the fith element, spirit. If its a banishing ritual what are you banishing at each quater exactly if not the base elements for all things?


No not exactly. This has caused more confusion than anything I can think of.

Ok, the pentagram you draw is drawn the same way as the earth pentagram but it is not the same. Technically it is the pentagram of assiah.

Generally the pentagram used in the LIRP is called just the "lesser Invoking" pentagram and in the LBRP it is the lesser banishing pentagram. The best way to think of it is when invoking, you are drawing spirit down into matter and conversely when banishing drawing spirit out of matter. Do not mean elemental spirit, but rather just a general term like LVX.

Does that help?


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Mchawi
post May 14 2007, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE(Nero @ May 14 2007, 10:45 AM) *
No not exactly. This has caused more confusion than anything I can think of.

Ok, the pentagram you draw is drawn the same way as the earth pentagram but it is not the same. Technically it is the pentagram of assiah.

Generally the pentagram used in the LIRP is called just the "lesser Invoking" pentagram and in the LBRP it is the lesser banishing pentagram. The best way to think of it is when invoking, you are drawing spirit down into matter and conversely when banishing drawing spirit out of matter. Do not mean elemental spirit, but rather just a general term like LVX.

Does that help?


I get that but as Malkuth its repondance is earth as in Assiah so it is overall an earth banishing ritual.

Why are elemental associations given to the Archs?

You said this in another thread;

QUOTE
As for the pentagrams, he is turning the lesser pentagram ritual into a elemental ritual which it is not. It is a common mistake. If you want an elemental ritual then use the greater pentagram ritual.


I have also thought about using the individual elemental pents in banishing and now I'm just confused and annoyed.... can you please explain what you think the LBRPs function is exactly? I'm following Kraigs text here, he states that you should associate the elements with the LBRP and I have spoken to other C.M's who have explained it in the same way. Banishing the elements in Malkuth (earth).

What is the function of the LBRP & what is being banished exactly? Understand that the Archs are being invoked to guard the gates.

From where I sit each night I can't be doing much wrong.

Not being rude or anything just like to know what I'm doing exactly take things like this seriously being a bit of a perfectionist and all.

Htp

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 14 2007, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 14 2007, 12:13 PM) *
I get that but as Malkuth its repondance is earth as in Assiah so it is overall an earth banishing ritual.

Why are elemental associations given to the Archs?


No all the elements are within assiah of malkuth, hence the four fold color view you see of malkuth. You are banishing the gross of assiah of malkuth.

The archangels are tricky. They are not the direct elements per say although they are in the mix as well. When we say fire we do not just mean elemental fire. We also mean Yod, atzuluth, king scale, etc etc. So michael would not just be over elemental fire but all the associations. So taken together you have all four worlds in qabalah and hence the all, the everything.

Or YHVH, or Father, Mother, Son, and Daughter, etc.


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Aurelius
post May 18 2007, 04:28 PM
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hey allthough ive been studying magickal arts since i was 14 and have many books/resorces i havent heard much about srp, and i would like it if you could give me some info/refernces to it so that i may add it to my own reference collection, thanx alot =]


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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 21 2007, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE(Aurelius @ May 18 2007, 06:28 PM) *
hey allthough ive been studying magickal arts since i was 14 and have many books/resorces i havent heard much about srp, and i would like it if you could give me some info/refernces to it so that i may add it to my own reference collection, thanx alot =]


I do not understand the question. What about the SRP do you want to know?


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Aurelius
post May 21 2007, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE(Nero @ May 21 2007, 05:06 PM) *
I do not understand the question. What about the SRP do you want to know?

just general pratice of it realy if you wouldnt mind =]


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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 22 2007, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE(Aurelius @ May 21 2007, 08:41 PM) *
just general pratice of it realy if you wouldnt mind =]


The pentagram material in the Golden Dawn book covers it adequately as well as more modern sources such as Modern Magick.


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Mchawi
post May 23 2007, 04:47 AM
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Hello again

Few more questions... I don't understand why we're told to do the Q.Cross so many times when doing the full daily practice, the LBRP and the BRH. It amounts to three times one at the beginning, once in the middle, once at the end as you know. Thing is the LVX part of the ritual is more or less the Q.Cross so is it viable to leave out the end Q.C and do the LVX? I'm now doing the LVX at the end and it seems a bit silly doing the Q.C after the LVX.

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 23 2007, 07:15 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 23 2007, 06:47 AM) *
Hello again

Few more questions... I don't understand why we're told to do the Q.Cross so many times when doing the full daily practice, the LBRP and the BRH. It amounts to three times one at the beginning, once in the middle, once at the end as you know. Thing is the LVX part of the ritual is more or less the Q.Cross so is it viable to leave out the end Q.C and do the LVX? I'm now doing the LVX at the end and it seems a bit silly doing the Q.C after the LVX.


By LVX I assume you mean the Analysis of the Keyword.

The QC and the Analysis of the Keyword are used in conjunction with other rituals but are actual a ritual all to themselves and have very different purposes from each other. The QC is a mild invocation of the higherself and then affirms and aligns the subtle bodies with the tree of life within the sphere of sensation. In essence you are saying you are one with the universe and one with the divine. This promotes equilibrium and asserts your right to control the universe.

The Analysis of the Keyword on the other hand is a very different ritual as it is a transformative ritual invocation of IAO, the great cycle of death and rebirth. The version of the keyword used with the Rose Cross ritual also has a invocation of LVX attached as well.

As you can see you cannot substitute one for the other because they have very different symbolism and results. Now if you open with a QC, then go to a LBRP, then are moving directly into the Analysis of the Keyword followed by the LBRH and just wish to skip the closing QC of the LBRP then that should be ok. I do not do it as I find the QC a great way to sort of bridge the rituals into the next one but if you feel you gain from it in your practice then go ahead.


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Mchawi
post May 24 2007, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE(Nero @ May 23 2007, 08:15 AM) *
By LVX I assume you mean the Analysis of the Keyword.

The QC and the Analysis of the Keyword are used in conjunction with other rituals but are actual a ritual all to themselves and have very different purposes from each other. The QC is a mild invocation of the higherself and then affirms and aligns the subtle bodies with the tree of life within the sphere of sensation. In essence you are saying you are one with the universe and one with the divine. This promotes equilibrium and asserts your right to control the universe.

The Analysis of the Keyword on the other hand is a very different ritual as it is a transformative ritual invocation of IAO, the great cycle of death and rebirth. The version of the keyword used with the Rose Cross ritual also has a invocation of LVX attached as well.

As you can see you cannot substitute one for the other because they have very different symbolism and results. Now if you open with a QC, then go to a LBRP, then are moving directly into the Analysis of the Keyword followed by the LBRH and just wish to skip the closing QC of the LBRP then that should be ok. I do not do it as I find the QC a great way to sort of bridge the rituals into the next one but if you feel you gain from it in your practice then go ahead.


Thanks.

Not sure who it is, probably Kraig who says you can swap one for the other. Can see it makes sence doing the Q.C three times but I wondered of its relevance if Kraig says you can swap one for the other. The book you reccomended to me, QBL magick by Chris, has the banishing in the BRH first then the Analysis afterwards... at fist I thought it was a bit off but it makes sence to banish ALL influences before doing the analysis rather than banishing the influence of Assiah, doing the Analysis then banishing planetary forces. I have taken to doing it in the order Chris has mentioned.

Ok... in the BRH you are banishing the influence of Saturn, planetary forces. In the LBRP you are banishing the influence of earthly forces in Assiah or what your understanding of it may be. So what is the QBL association with the BRH?

Also... Chris states that theres a need to keep a constant line when etching the Hexagrams in the BRH... Kraig has one using the appropriate Hexes rather than the Unicursal which I think is good as each Hex is individual. Still, keeping a constant line makes sence, they obviously merge but do you think the Unicursal is better to use than the individual hexes? What are your experiences with both? I have only felt a Hex once and am beginning to think the Unicursal works better.

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Mchawi
post May 26 2007, 06:34 AM
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Had a good ritual last night after missing a few days, am now not so sure about doing the analysis after the BRH. Kinda missed flying into Yud-Nun-Resh-Yud straight after the LBRP and it felt odd doing the Q.C after the Analysis. Probably me moving from a comfort zone more than anytihng. Still, is it prehaps that the Analysis brings celestial light to earth for one to then push out the planetary influences within it?

Not to mull over details .lol.

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 29 2007, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ May 24 2007, 10:34 AM) *
Thanks.

Not sure who it is, probably Kraig who says you can swap one for the other. Can see it makes sence doing the Q.C three times but I wondered of its relevance if Kraig says you can swap one for the other. The book you reccomended to me, QBL magick by Chris, has the banishing in the BRH first then the Analysis afterwards... at fist I thought it was a bit off but it makes sence to banish ALL influences before doing the analysis rather than banishing the influence of Assiah, doing the Analysis then banishing planetary forces. I have taken to doing it in the order Chris has mentioned.

Ok... in the BRH you are banishing the influence of Saturn, planetary forces. In the LBRP you are banishing the influence of earthly forces in Assiah or what your understanding of it may be. So what is the QBL association with the BRH?

Also... Chris states that theres a need to keep a constant line when etching the Hexagrams in the BRH... Kraig has one using the appropriate Hexes rather than the Unicursal which I think is good as each Hex is individual. Still, keeping a constant line makes sence, they obviously merge but do you think the Unicursal is better to use than the individual hexes? What are your experiences with both? I have only felt a Hex once and am beginning to think the Unicursal works better.


The ritual as taught by the Golden Dawn was open with the QC and close with the keyword. The same for the rose cross ritual. I think Kraig might have switched the orders but it has been so long since I have looked through his book that I do not remember.

The hexagram lines up with the planets and spheres as arranged on the tree of life. See the hexagram paper from the golden dawn for more details. Btw, it just occured to me that if you learned the LBRH from Kraig then take note that the order of the northern hexagrams are incorrect. He has them opposite. Just be aware it is a misprint.

The unicursal hexagrams were made popular by crowley. Pat Z, mentions it was not invented by crowley but was rather an experimental hexagram form used within the golden dawn. What the actual truth is I have no clue. I use the traditional hexagrams but I do admit the unicursal hex for sol is a lot easier than the traditional one. Once again it is a personal choice and I do not think it really matters which you use as long as you pick one and stick with it.


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Egle
post May 30 2007, 04:28 PM
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Hi, I have a newbie question about GRP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/baby.gif) How variations of this ritual are to be made? I mean, I know a version when you invoke all the elements, but if you want to invoke just one, do you just proceed with invoking the wanted element, or do you have to banish others first?
Thanks a million.


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Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 31 2007, 11:26 AM
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The formula is, banish, invoke, then banish again.
Yes banish all of them.


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animus
post Jun 3 2007, 12:03 PM
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I have a few simple(?) questions:

When doing the sign of silence, why do you stamp your foot when you go back from the sign of the enterer (As it says in the ritual magick manual from GD)

Also, about drawing a circle, i figure you can either draw one, or not, but what is the differnce in not doing so?
When dealing with elements my guess is that when you draw a line you create a circle and banish/invoke within that line, and when not doing it, you banish/invoke as far as you(r aura?) can reach?
And what is the difference in drawing it when dealing with elementals and with the LBRP as it isnt really a banishing ritual per say?
I guess the circle is also some sort of protection for yourself, but i can't wrap my mind around it at the moment. Would be happy for a reply on this.


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Fio Praeter Humanus
post Jun 4 2007, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE(animus @ Jun 3 2007, 02:03 PM) *
I have a few simple(?) questions:

When doing the sign of silence, why do you stamp your foot when you go back from the sign of the enterer (As it says in the ritual magick manual from GD)

That is the way the sign is expressed. In practical terms it acts to ground out the energy rebounding back at you initiated from the attacking sign.

QUOTE(animus @ Jun 3 2007, 02:03 PM) *
Also, about drawing a circle, i figure you can either draw one, or not, but what is the differnce in not doing so?
When dealing with elements my guess is that when you draw a line you create a circle and banish/invoke within that line, and when not doing it, you banish/invoke as far as you(r aura?) can reach?
And what is the difference in drawing it when dealing with elementals and with the LBRP as it isnt really a banishing ritual per say?
I guess the circle is also some sort of protection for yourself, but i can't wrap my mind around it at the moment. Would be happy for a reply on this.

Drawing the circle helps fortify your sphere of sensation. Over time it greatly strengthens it.


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Mchawi
post Jun 4 2007, 10:29 AM
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What do you think about using diffrent elements at diffrent quaters and what not? Even dieties?

What do you think of these?

NORTH = Midnight - Water - Winter - Seker.
EAST = Sunrise - Air - Spring - Maat.
SOUTH = Noon - Fire - Summer - S.Herukhuti.
WEST = Sunset - Earth - Fall - Sheps.

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animus
post Jun 4 2007, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(Nero @ Jun 4 2007, 11:17 AM) *
Drawing the circle helps fortify your sphere of sensation. Over time it greatly strengthens it.


Great answers as always, what does it mean if i don't draw the circle tho? (Or is this one of these skipping around the answers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif))


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Fio Praeter Humanus
post Jun 5 2007, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE(animus @ Jun 4 2007, 04:36 PM) *
Great answers as always, what does it mean if i don't draw the circle tho? (Or is this one of these skipping around the answers? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif))


Why would you not want to? Symbolically not completing the circle leaves gaps and holes in your defenses. As I said earlier the Pentagram ritual is a banishing ritual but goes in a round about way. It produces equilibrium system wide so nothing unbalanced can exist. If a severe imbalance already exists it helps to resolve it in time.

The LBRP can be compared to a magical vitamin. It produces equilibrium which is critical to all work. It strengthens and builds up the sphere of sensation, opens up the astral senses, and cleanses the subtle bodies. A single or sporadic use of it is like a drop in a bucket but performed over time the effect is realized as well as imprinting upon your aura the pentagram and divine names. These are of course only the direct effects, indirectly the performance teaches many critical skills in ritual procedure, energy manipulation, and astral senses.

The ritual has been used for over a hundred years now. It is the first ritual usually learned by a new comer to magick. Most times it is the first one they want to change to "make better" or 'improve" it some how without really ever understanding it or allowing time for the effects to become apparent in the first place. You can find a hundred and one different variations on it but on a long enough time line everyone seems to come back to the original rite, because very simply it works and works well.


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Mchawi
post Jun 5 2007, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE(Nero @ Jun 5 2007, 11:02 AM) *
The ritual has been used for over a hundred years now. It is the first ritual usually learned by a new comer to magick. Most times it is the first one they want to change to "make better" or 'improve" it some how without really ever understanding it or allowing time for the effects to become apparent in the first place. You can find a hundred and one different variations on it but on a long enough time line everyone seems to come back to the original rite, because very simply it works and works well.


Hmmm... I get ya. Not sure 'bout those either, if I was more daring i'd give it a try for a while but I'm weary in regards to things like this. Works well as it is, its just the placing of the elements seemed to make sence. I mean, why is water opposite air and how does water relate to the sunsetting rather than earth? Its good to question things.

Not sure about others or if its a case of becoming accustomed to the energies involved but I have noticed my success rate seems a bit off. Have to admit I haven't felt the intellectual effect of the MP for a while or aquired the, 'voice' kind of state if u know what I mean. Is that normal? My rituals are good but it seems to have left me feeling lacklustered in regards, if you see my point. Was doing nothing different then I don't think.

Also... Fear. Its only one's self one is afraid of, nothing bad is going to happen, fear in its self is a sence, a warning signal, heightened awareness as fight or flight kicks in but yeesh! How do you overcome fear in a ritual? It dampens the practice as it makes (me personally) tone down the ritual in a animal like flight response... even then the LBRP etc are 'measly' when thinking about some of the other invoking rituals with other dieties involved so its obviously something that needs to be overcome.

.lol. Am now wondering what secrets could be hidden in all this.

Is there a best time to practice understanding planetary hours?

Can't 'things' get under the pents? Shouldn't there be a pent on the floor?

What colour robe is best? .lol.

Is it best to use IAO or Eloah v daath?

How important is a magikal motto?

What have you noticed has changed about yourself in your continued practice of the LBRP and other rituals?

Htp
M

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animus
post Jun 6 2007, 02:19 AM
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QUOTE(Nero @ Jun 5 2007, 11:02 AM) *
Why would you not want to? Symbolically not completing the circle leaves gaps and holes in your defenses. As I said earlier the Pentagram ritual is a banishing ritual but goes in a round about way. It produces equilibrium system wide so nothing unbalanced can exist. If a severe imbalance already exists it helps to resolve it in time.


I want the circle in the LBRP yes, but what about the elemental pentagram rituals, without the circle, the banish/invoke goes further than if i would have a circle (then it would only go as far as inside the circle, no?


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