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 Voodoo
Zylbath
post Apr 17 2009, 11:57 AM
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Voodoo
The voodoo is a religion that originally derives from the state Benin in Africa. But while the colonization was in progress, a lot of black humans were transported to the south of the USA, Haiti and the north of South-America as slaves. They also brought their belief with them, so the voodoo diffuse to these regions. The problems for the slaves have been that they weren’t allowed to practise their religion. So they had to christianize it. That’s why the Haitian or American Voodoo alternates from the African Voodoo.
The western voodoo is actually monotheistic. They believe in the Bondye (coming from the French: Bon Dieu, for god) as the ultimate and almighty god. All other gods stand below him. These god are called: loa or lwa. Of these loas there are round about 300 different gods. In fact, the voodoosi (someone who is practising the voodoo religion) actually do not call it gods, they say “principle” or “energy” for it.

The African voodoo doesn’t have this aspect of an almighty god. The history of the creation is the following:
First there has been nothing. Then the Gbêdoto came and created himself, and he still does it again and again. The Gbêdoto is the spiritual, transcendental and cosmic cause and causality. For this self-creation the Acê was necessary. This is somehow the divine energy that all gods exist of. Then the two creation gods Mawu and Lissa appeared. They are actually not regarded as individual deities; actually they personify the creation god in one with its gender aspects. These both gods begot 14 children. These children begot again children and by this, time by time, the pantheon was created.

Voodoo is not, as it is mostly seen, a religion that aims the damage of other people. It is rather a “normal” religion, that helps one to come clear with his life. The voodoosi have a lot of respect for the loas; and that’s why they are often sacrifice for them or praying. All causes in the life of a voodoosi originated from the loas.

For further information just ask.


(No guarentee for linguistic deficits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )


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Dancing Coyote
post Apr 17 2009, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE(Zylbath @ Apr 17 2009, 12:57 PM) *

Voodoo
The voodoo is a religion that originally derives from the state Benin in Africa. But while the colonization was in progress, a lot of black humans were transported to the south of the USA, Haiti and the north of South-America as slaves. They also brought their belief with them, so the voodoo diffuse to these regions. The problems for the slaves have been that they weren’t allowed to practise their religion. So they had to christianize it. That’s why the Haitian or American Voodoo alternates from the African Voodoo.
The western voodoo is actually monotheistic. They believe in the Bondye (coming from the French: Bon Dieu, for god) as the ultimate and almighty god. All other gods stand below him. These god are called: loa or lwa. Of these loas there are round about 300 different gods. In fact, the voodoosi (someone who is practising the voodoo religion) actually do not call it gods, they say “principle” or “energy” for it.

The African voodoo doesn’t have this aspect of an almighty god. The history of the creation is the following:
First there has been nothing. Then the Gbêdoto came and created himself, and he still does it again and again. The Gbêdoto is the spiritual, transcendental and cosmic cause and causality. For this self-creation the Acê was necessary. This is somehow the divine energy that all gods exist of. Then the two creation gods Mawu and Lissa appeared. They are actually not regarded as individual deities; actually they personify the creation god in one with its gender aspects. These both gods begot 14 children. These children begot again children and by this, time by time, the pantheon was created.

Voodoo is not, as it is mostly seen, a religion that aims the damage of other people. It is rather a “normal” religion, that helps one to come clear with his life. The voodoosi have a lot of respect for the loas; and that’s why they are often sacrifice for them or praying. All causes in the life of a voodoosi originated from the loas.

For further information just ask.
(No guarentee for linguistic deficits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )


I've been reading about Voodoo for some time now, it's not my cup of tea per-se but I do enjoy the ideas behind it. How would you classify loa vs other spirits?


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Zylbath
post Apr 17 2009, 04:26 PM
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Hey,
sorry, what do you mean exactly by spirit? The "gods" of other cultures?

For me, there is always just something divine, an allmighty might, without any interpretation or form.
And when there are polytheistic systems, they actually just personlize the aspect of this transcendental might. (In fact, this makes it easier for pur cpmprehension, to evocate a certain aspect/energy to our rituals.)
But I guess, that in the voodoo it isn't such a secret, that it is always just an interpretation of just ONE divine might. (As what I've said about the Loas being just the derivatives of Acê, the cosmological power/might.) Further I also guess, (I cannot really say this for sure, 'cause I haven't living in a voodoo culture (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)), that the voodoosi comprehense their pantheon more as a commune or unity(/entity) than totally individual gods.
Is that, what you were asking for??


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Mchawi
post Apr 18 2009, 09:45 AM
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Have to confess to being completely and utterly afraid of Voodoo, perhaps to do with a strong but severed connection with it.

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Zylbath
post Apr 18 2009, 10:41 AM
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Ah okay. Not everybody has to like it, but mostly this picture comes by medias ^^
In which way do you have connections to it??


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Dancing Coyote
post Apr 19 2009, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE(Zylbath @ Apr 17 2009, 05:26 PM) *

Hey,
sorry, what do you mean exactly by spirit? The "gods" of other cultures?

For me, there is always just something divine, an allmighty might, without any interpretation or form.
And when there are polytheistic systems, they actually just personlize the aspect of this transcendental might. (In fact, this makes it easier for pur cpmprehension, to evocate a certain aspect/energy to our rituals.)
But I guess, that in the voodoo it isn't such a secret, that it is always just an interpretation of just ONE divine might. (As what I've said about the Loas being just the derivatives of Acê, the cosmological power/might.) Further I also guess, (I cannot really say this for sure, 'cause I haven't living in a voodoo culture (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)), that the voodoosi comprehense their pantheon more as a commune or unity(/entity) than totally individual gods.
Is that, what you were asking for??


Well from what I've seen and heard spirits and things are as such.

General spirits and gods are fully in the spiritual plane so they go to a medium or shaman to both contact and/or enter this one.

Shaman are both in this world and in the spiritual world(s) though most shaman are more here rather than there. Excluding epileptics who are able to use epilepsy to enter the spirit world: they are more there than here.

Cats, Spiders, Crows, Jackals and many other animals are guardians of the spirit world they are slightly more here than there.

Loa are spirits in a strict sense but they are considered between worlds but they are more in the spirit world rather than this one, loa are also considered to have free will.



Spirit world
<-gods/spirits-----------------------------Loa/Demon/Djinn---------middle------Cats(and others)---Shaman/mediums---------------------NormalPeople->Physical world

If you are a plant type shaman you could include plants into the cats (and others) category.

I hope this answers your question.


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Zylbath
post Apr 19 2009, 04:28 PM
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I think, you should not have such a straight view of the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
You cannot draw such explicit differences beetween both spiritual worlds. They are more conjoint and in a complexer way. The difference is primarily that in our world material is ruling. We are determined of physical laws and the material being. Cats and Spider and all other living is first farmost placed here, cause of their type. But their minds could have special abilites that is able to take a short look into the other world.
Gods/spirits in a divine way are both worlds. They are not put in just one world, they ARE both worlds. Their will is manifested in our material world, aswell in the other world. I guess their is no hierarchy of gods and loas. Both are ruling the worlds, so they are divine.

This post has been edited by Zylbath: Apr 19 2009, 04:29 PM


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Ankhhape
post Apr 19 2009, 05:55 PM
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When I was younger, I stayed a lot in New Orleans and was very close with a Mambo. We discussed the bastardization of West African Yoruba Vodoun and it's mixture of Catholic Saints quite a lot, her family was Senegalese and she could actually speak Fon, very sexy . . . LOL.

She was a great friend and extremely wise (we were only in our twenties but she was very mature, I was an idiot, still am).

I learned a lot from her and her family back then and I miss them all these days.
I think Voodoo / Vodoun / Hoodoo gets a bad rap for it's animal blood rituals which are very Pagan-like and in some ways primitive (oh boy how she would rip me a new one if she heard me say that)

Unfortunately she and her family perished in the hurricane a few years ago.
Her name was Petit Fey


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Kheper-i kheper kheperu kheper-kuie
em kheperu en Khepri kheper em Sep Tepy

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Dancing Coyote
post Apr 19 2009, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(Zylbath @ Apr 19 2009, 05:28 PM) *

I think, you should not have such a straight view of the world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
You cannot draw such explicit differences beetween both spiritual worlds. They are more conjoint and in a complexer way. The difference is primarily that in our world material is ruling. We are determined of physical laws and the material being. Cats and Spider and all other living is first farmost placed here, cause of their type. But their minds could have special abilites that is able to take a short look into the other world.
Gods/spirits in a divine way are both worlds. They are not put in just one world, they ARE both worlds. Their will is manifested in our material world, aswell in the other world. I guess their is no hierarchy of gods and loas. Both are ruling the worlds, so they are divine.


Yes, because documenting your findings is a very stupid thing to do. If you read any basic book on voodon you would find that there is a hierarchy of loas. First and foremost a creator: the loa are his/her messengers. Yemanja and Ogun parallel Mary and Jesus the rest are similar to the saints, that right there is a hierarchy! I do not think that graph is ridged, I made it to better illustrate my findings. I suggest reading a few books on the subject: Serpent and the Rainbow is a great introduction.

This post has been edited by Dancing Coyote: Apr 19 2009, 08:59 PM


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Zylbath
post Apr 20 2009, 03:26 AM
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I didn't said there is no hierarchy among the loas, I just said, that the hierarchy of everything is a bit to strong and unflexible. I think we cannot put the whole life in just one graph. I also didn't intend to insult you, it was just a normal critic. I'm sorry, if it seemed to be in another way. (My possibilities of expression are limited, so I have some difficulties to make good discussions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif))
The creator that you mentioned isn't a typical symbol in all the voudoun directions. It is rather in the western voudoun, where have been christian influences. He is, like I already said, often called Bondye or Grânn Master. But in African Voudoun there is a little difference. There is a creator complex of the sexe aspects. And Acê that is often meant to be the divine energy in the cosmos of which all loas consist, preceeds this creation. Actually, this Acê is the creating power. So, all in all, you have right, there is this creating aspect. But only in the western voudoun this master stands above all other loas. There is that hierarchy you were talking about. About the rest of the hierarchy I don't know that much, becaure their is not that much literature in german. But in the African Voudou countries the loas are the highest instance and the cause of all earthy actions.


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Umbra Euri
post May 11 2009, 08:42 PM
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Though I would chime in as a Voudun practitioner

That hierarchy you are thinking of in Haitian Voudun is as such:

Rada - Older wiser more beneficial representing ancient africa

Petro - More passionate and angry, represent the "new world"

Kongo - spirits of the congo

Nago - spirits of nigeria

Ghede - spirits of the dead

If you would like any more info please let me know.


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Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.


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Dancing Coyote
post May 11 2009, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE(Umbra Euri @ May 11 2009, 09:42 PM) *

Though I would chime in as a Voudun practitioner

That hierarchy you are thinking of in Haitian Voudun is as such:

Rada - Older wiser more beneficial representing ancient africa

Petro - More passionate and angry, represent the "new world"

Kongo - spirits of the congo

Nago - spirits of nigeria

Ghede - spirits of the dead

If you would like any more info please let me know.


What did you find that on google?


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Aphrodite
post May 12 2009, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE(Mchawi @ Apr 18 2009, 11:45 AM) *

Have to confess to being completely and utterly afraid of Voodoo, perhaps to do with a strong but severed connection with it.


Understandable. . .Its still practiced a lot in black and latin communities. And sadly there are a LOT of people using it for cursing and vindictive reasons. . . .

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Umbra Euri
post May 12 2009, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE(Dancing Coyote @ May 12 2009, 12:41 AM) *

What did you find that on google?


My head actually.

AS I said.

I practice the religion.

I know what it is about, thank you very much.


--------------------
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Jenfucius
post May 25 2009, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE(Umbra Euri @ May 13 2009, 01:58 AM) *

My head actually.

AS I said.

I practice the religion.

I know what it is about, thank you very much.

American Voodoo or Haintian?

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Dancing Coyote
post May 26 2009, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE(Jenfucius @ May 25 2009, 08:22 PM) *

American Voodoo or Haintian?


Exactly.


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Roj
post May 16 2010, 04:03 AM
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QUOTE(Dancing Coyote @ Apr 19 2009, 09:53 PM) *

Serpent and the Rainbow is a great introduction.


It really is a fantastic book on the subject! But I am going to have to back up Coyote here... he seems to understand who the Lwa (That is how I spell it. I pronounce it "Lo-Ah") are, for the most part. One thing that every serious practitioner of Vodou has always tried to impress upon me is this: always try to show Lwa the utmost respect. Different Lwa have different temperaments... some love cigars, others hate smoke... some love to drink, others don't... some love to be vulgar and funny, others like to turn spiritual lessons into practical jokes...*coughcough*Legba!*coughcough*


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