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 Magician, Sorcerer, Wizard?, What do you consider yourself?
Thorn
post Oct 15 2007, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(Koreku @ Oct 14 2007, 11:54 AM) *
Hmm... I'll have to go with Mage, if only for the fact that it seems to fit what I do. Magician seems like a fake-ish word (ie, stage magician). Wizard just doesn't seem to fit, somehow. Priest seems too religious (I am not part of a magickal religion, I just practice it). Sorcerer also seems to fit as much as mage, but doesn't sound as cool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Somehow I've always liked the word "Mage". I think it's because, for some reason, the picture I get from Mage is a young, ambitious, powerful, truth-seeking, overall just... cool magick user, so I've always called myself by that name. Also, the word sounds inspirational. I know it's odd, but whenever I think of the word or something I want to write a song, work on my book or write a poem.



I don't know how much of an authority I am on this subject, being female, but I get the same kind of feelings from the word magus (which is basically the same thing.. I think). Very romantic - in the traditional sense - and mystical. The only thing about that and mage is I think it denotes more of a completed stage, the high learned aging merlin, rather than a young apprentice. Just my input:)

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Foxglove
post Oct 21 2007, 05:22 PM
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I am a sorceress. I define sorcery as magic practiced through the Self, through the raw power of Will alone. I do not ask gods or spirits to do favors for me, and I personally find such dependence to be... distasteful. I am a powerful being in my own rite, perfectly capable of doing the work myself, and I have no need to involve other entities.

I also practice without tools. I always found them to be unnecessary. Plus, chances are that you won't have them with you when you need to cast at a moment's notice. I think that dependence on tools is a weakness. IMO, it's much better to be able to cast with nothing but the sheer force of your own Will.

I consider witchcraft to be a type of magical practice that involves casting circles, burning candles and incense, and chanting various spells and invocations. Most witches work with nature energies, spirits, or pagan gods and goddesses. Too often, I think it seems like nothing but burning colored candles and reciting bad poetry. lol Maybe that's why I'm not a witch.

Most mages I've encountered don't actually believe in real magic. They tend to think that magic is going to the fridge to grab a cold one, or switching on the television, or making a sandwich-- that sort of thing. Whatever floats their boat, I guess.

I've never heard of anyone who claimed to be a wizard, but I'd have to wonder if they may have read Harry Potter a few too many times during their youth. lol

Anyway, these are just my views, based on my own flawed impressions and stereotypes. Labels might be more trouble than their worth, but do make us think about how we define ourselves as individuals. Maybe they're not so bad, after all.

This post has been edited by Foxglove: Oct 21 2007, 05:23 PM

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Pandora
post Oct 21 2007, 10:45 PM
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The best word I've found for the sort of profession we're describing here is "Imaginer".

Myself, I'm a shifter. Or at least I would be... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


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cryptokiller
post Oct 22 2007, 05:46 AM
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Well I have always called myself a Mage, for no other reason than it just feels comfortable.

I never liked the term Chaote, even though I probably still count as one, I am neither a Shaman nor a Witch by my spellcasting style, and the terms Wizard and Sorcerer just seemed a little too 'High Magick' for me.

I do what I do and do it simply, and I like the idea of having a simple name for myself.

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Thorn
post Oct 22 2007, 10:22 PM
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I guess I've always gone by the term Witch, even though I do agree with that sorceress chick - Foxglove - about her interpretation of witchcraft. I've just never really found a term that suited me. I liked the word sorceress, although a lot of references state sorcery strictly involves the use of spirits and invocations. Whatever feels best, I guess. A lot of times I've just used the term magically-inclined, but now I'm getting kind of curious about this whole nameology thing.
Also I get the impression the word sorceress implies greater strength and power than that of a witch.. sort of a level up, or something. I dont know, something to think about anyways.

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SeekerVI
post Oct 23 2007, 08:58 PM
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I've never understood the point of tiles. Just 'cause someone in a long black robe, with strange jewelry, and a goatee says he's a Wizaitch-Invoumner of the 99th Specialist Sons of Mercury, doesn't mean it's necesarily true, or that I understand what that all means. I've also known several individuals who all called themselves Wiccan, but didn't seem to share anything except the firm belief that the Goddess was not God linguistically cross-dressing, but another distinct and separate being.

As I consider myself human, I like Source-error. And on occasion Hey You Over There With The Funny Hat, Yes You.

This post has been edited by SeekerVI: Oct 23 2007, 08:59 PM


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arabian mage999
post Oct 23 2007, 10:49 PM
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these days magician are the one the magic tricks it has nothing to do whith spells or spirit summoning . it existed long ago in ancient egypt . 7000 years ago long before solomon.
these magician used slight of hand to turn wooden sticks to snakes. until moses defeated them whith his miracle

This post has been edited by arabian mage999: Oct 23 2007, 10:50 PM

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Sachiel
post Oct 26 2007, 07:34 PM
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As far as calling yourself something...

To the uninitiated, I'd just say "occultist," because that clearly defines what we are, and doesn't possess any of the connotations of falsehood, ineptitude, or megalomania that terms like "Arch-Witch," or "Magus" sometimes evoke.

To those who know what you're talking about, just use a technical term, like, "I'm a necromancer/emotional mage/ astral dabbler" or whatever.

There's not real rank of powers...the terms are often interchangeable.

It is important to note that sorcery amongst people who don't actually practice occultism has a definition which implies the work of evil spirits, magician implies stage acts, and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.

EDIT: I mean all connotations to the uninitiated who do not practice magic and who WILL usually think that terms like witch sound very teenage mainstream...so no offense to anyone.

This post has been edited by Sachiel: Oct 26 2007, 07:36 PM


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Koreku
post Oct 29 2007, 05:59 PM
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(and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.) /endquote

Sorry to dissapoint you, but Mage has been around long, long before World of Warcraft. I mean no disrespect, but honestly... WoW got it from thousands of other things that used the word mage. It's kind of like saying Wizard or Sorcerer sounds very D+D -ish.

I apologize for the sidetracking, let's get back on topic (whoops)

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Sachiel
post Oct 29 2007, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE(Koreku @ Oct 29 2007, 06:59 PM) *
(and mage sounds very World of Warcraft-esque.) /endquote

Sorry to dissapoint you, but Mage has been around long, long before World of Warcraft. I mean no disrespect, but honestly... WoW got it from thousands of other things that used the word mage. It's kind of like saying Wizard or Sorcerer sounds very D+D -ish.

I apologize for the sidetracking, let's get back on topic (whoops)

What I meant is, if you're talking to the average non-occultist, their main conception of magic is based on fantasy books and games...and in almost all games possessing a magic element, the term mage is either utilised, or in an online environment the term mage is as standard as, say, "lol."


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telempath
post Nov 23 2007, 12:06 AM
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I actually call myself a very long title. Psionic Vampiric Mage.

I don't like the term magician. When I hear that, I think of ceremonial magick. I think of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn stuff. I think of all of those silly names, rituals, gestures, spirits, and useless pomp and circumstance things. I find it boring, tedious, and useless (for myself). I think of people blabbing about their toms, grimoires, and magickal orders, going on philosophical tangents that have no meaning to the real world.

I link sorcery to conjuring, controlling, or working with entities.

My boyfriend actually got into wizardry a while back. Interestingly enough, it is the male counterpart to the witch. They both share the same root. I think one means wise woman the other wise man.

This post has been edited by telempath: Nov 23 2007, 12:07 AM

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Petrus
post Nov 27 2007, 06:26 AM
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I've always liked the word "tourist," myself. ;-)

It works right now because I don't really know anything at all yet...it'll work in the future because I probably plan to jump around a lot...and the other cool part is that when people hear it, they automatically assume you're an ignoramus, so you can disarm those who don't know better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)


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Galren
post Dec 6 2007, 08:15 PM
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I go along with Foxglove to an extent, I dont ask entities, I tell them. I do a lot of work with Fate related magic, so a Sorcerer is fairly accurate, as a technical term, it can also mean one who is the source of their magic. Wizards tend to be highly ceremonial magicians, lots of Enochian and Quabbalist stuff. Druids are fairly easy to label, witches can be male or female, Warlock, nice ring to it, means oath-breaker, so its insulting to those in the know.

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realm_crawler
post Jan 2 2008, 09:46 PM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/insane.gif) i would refer to my self as a mad man in training =what i would become would be a mad genius or something
I dont really know but as i see it we are all mad on this planet and the more your called mad the wiser you seem to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rule.gif)


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Praxis
post Nov 17 2008, 05:33 PM
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These days, I find myself preferring the term Mage.

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lordssword
post Nov 20 2008, 05:56 PM
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i refer to myself as a Necromancer

enough said


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Silver Dragon
post Nov 22 2008, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE(Foxglove @ Oct 21 2007, 06:22 PM) *

I am a sorceress. I define sorcery as magic practiced through the Self, through the raw power of Will alone.


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QUOTE

I do not ask gods or spirits to do favors for me, and I personally find such dependence to be... distasteful. I am a powerful being in my own rite, perfectly capable of doing the work myself, and I have no need to involve other entities.



I work with deities, but I channel their power through me.

I call upon them to grant me their wisdom and their magick. I do not ask them to do the work for me.



QUOTE
I also practice without tools. I always found them to be unnecessary. Plus, chances are that you won't have them with you when you need to cast at a moment's notice. I think that dependence on tools is a weakness. IMO, it's much better to be able to cast with nothing but the sheer force of your own Will.


Tools are unreliable, IMO.

They can break, they can be damaged, they can be lost ... without your tools, you're stuck!



QUOTE

I consider witchcraft to be a type of magical practice that involves casting circles, burning candles and incense, and chanting various spells and invocations. Most witches work with nature energies, spirits, or pagan gods and goddesses. Too often, I think it seems like nothing but burning colored candles and reciting bad poetry.


LOL ... I don't do the poetry thing, either.

I'm sorry, but burying three beans under a full moon will neither make you wealthy nor a Size 8.

This post has been edited by The Sorceress: Nov 22 2008, 06:27 PM


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Dancing Coyote
post Jan 12 2009, 03:08 AM
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Well it all depends. To me all these things stated mean different things for conversational use, my peers know what I'm talking about when I say "sorcerer" I mean a person who uses ritual magic and generally is very ceremonial about magical means. They all have their specific meanings for each individual. For me, Witch is considered a sexless title one can easily imagine the meaning behind. If you don't like that choice "Practitioner" has always worked for me. I can understand the problem of figuring out your language for explaining the phenomena, just beware when you name something you put your power over it. You might give yourself a title you'll eventually fall into, and that could be a bad thing.

Now what really interests me is: Why do all Sorcerers have short spiky hair?


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HSetesh
post Jan 26 2009, 08:32 PM
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I think that Magus (plural: Magi) is the most appropriate signifier.

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R.D.Stormsinger
post Mar 23 2009, 06:52 PM
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Im not into titles, per se. if i had to choose one, it would be wizard because i strive to learn and understand. Sorcerers were considered black magicians because they would evok spirits to do their dirty work, thereby pretty much taking the quick and easy path to power, rather than learning that power for themselves, and learning the responsability that comes with it. I tolerate mage in a social setting, when im with my order, and wizard when i have to include a title. I dont like priest because im not an ordained priest, even though all christians are considered priests for the Lord. I do not like being called a sorcerer because i view it as a negative title, and i dont like warlock because it is derived from an old word meaning for traitor.

go with what you like, but know that other people could take these terms very wrongly..... which is why i keep my title to myself.

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esoterica
post Mar 25 2009, 03:26 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi - very interesting



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SororZSD23
post Apr 7 2009, 07:34 PM
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I sometimes tell people that I am a practitioner of post-modern magick. Sometimes I call myself a Choate. Sometimes I call myself a mage or a "maga" ( which is an Italian word for a female mage or a sorceress.) As the HPS of a local pagan/Wiccan coven, I sometimes even refer to myself as a witch.

The term "mage" or magus (plural magi) comes from the word magoi from which we also get the word mageiea (magic). It origiinally referred to the priestly theurgists of Persia but magianism then diversified and spread across the Near East, North Africa, the Mediterranean, and Europe. By the turn of the first millenium of the common era, magi were all over the place but they were not exactly members of mainstream society ,and mainstream society (then as now) regarded magical workers with suspicion and fear, even if they did use their services on occasion. Although somewhat whitewashed from history, the Biblical Jesus was thought to be a magoi, was accused of being so in tracts of the Jewish Talmud, and 3rd and 4th century images of Jesus depict him holding a magic wand. You can find these images on the Web.

"Sorcerer" (from the French sortiar) and "Wizard" are just different names for mage or magician.

The term "witch" (from the Old English wicce) was generally a derogatory term until the early 20th century with the occult revival when it became fashionable for would-be reconstructionists to call themselves witches. Otherwise, it often referred to the mythical witch (the bogeyman type of witch) and not folk healers and spell casters , which were defined by other titles and whose magic often involved protecting folks from "witches." For instance, Italian sorcerers were called magos, magas, fattuchieros ("fixers") or stregono or stregona (ie,"sorcerer/ess"), they were not called "stregha" ("witch").Much Italian sorcery and shamanism has to do with being protected from influences such as "witches." I believe the same was true in Celtic, Brit, and Germanic paganism.


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Ozmagog
post Apr 25 2009, 02:27 AM
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I tend to think of myself as a sorceror or combat magician as I am most interested in combat magic and martial arts.

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SadhriiAgnVega
post Aug 29 2009, 02:42 PM
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Personally I have created my own rank of magick users. Each rank includes all of the above qualities. It is just a guideline.

Sympathetic Witch/Wizard(at the level of using basic ceremonial spells, mantras and hand cuts - learnt divination techniques)
Witch/Wizard (at the level of a fundamental understanding of magick and being able to create spells innovatively)
Mage (magic user who can also use charges like malas or wands)
Sorcerer (at the level of using basic empty-hand magic)
Siddhi / Sorcerer (at the level of charging and using a variety of empty hand spells and a enough magical ability to practice basic geomancy and large area spells e.g. weather changing) This is me!
Retsu Siddhi (A siddhi who has also reached a level where he can summon ghosts, demons empty hand and use silent mantras who also has a complete understanding of elements and aligned seasons, months, years, family members, organs, energy types)
Zai Siddhi (A siddhi who can use advanced elemental and environment control)
Zen Siddhi (A siddhi who has passed into the eternal realm and can return in his/her same form hundreds of years later, or teach from the other realms) My taoist teacher/guide - Tzu Lin Pin
Tao Siddhi (Hi, I'm gandalf the white - you get the point. Immortals who have almost unlimited influence over forces)

There is alkso the kuji in based ranks which go along with it,
Rin - Strength (having enough will and energy to do tangible magic)
Pyō / Hyō - Channel (having the focus to do tangible magic)
Tō - Harmony (having the contentment and wisdom to do tangible magic)
Sha - Healing (self explanatory)
Kai - Sense of Danger (")
Jin - Reading of thoughts. (")
Retsu - Control space and time. (")
Zai - sky or elements control. (")
Zen - enlightenment. (")

We don't all be having to aim for the top, many people may wish to be able to do a little magick for help or to attune with nature.
The ranks are based on tangible influence. This is all based on my beliefs so don't take offense if you might be considered lower in the ranks than you'd have wanted to be. XD

Let's say I'm an apprentice of another wizard and I'm at the level where I've created my first spell for healing.


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Kath
post Oct 14 2009, 06:52 AM
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in response to the original post, mage/magi/witch are all gender-neutral terms. You're trying too hard to look at things through pink & blue colored glasses. magic has no gender.

Personally I'm a Kath (hey it worked for buddha didn't it?)
it's not a very widely recognized magical title, but that's ok because labels are pretty meaningless.
It's a pity that the only way we have to communicate as a species is through phonetic tags which are so heavily laiden with 'pretext'.


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Relikhan
post Nov 19 2009, 02:51 PM
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How about student... To take a title with that signigigance would imply that you are a master... Mastery takes a lifetime of dedication and sacrafice. I prefer the title of student for the time being.... smaller shoes to fill.

student of the occult? student of divinity? Maybe Doctor? Witch Doctor?

Just a thought

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Kath
post Nov 22 2009, 09:34 AM
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ahh, *nod nod* I agree with you. "student" is a great title, much better than anything that implies 'guru' status.

the moment you start to think you know everything, you stop growing and start shriveling.


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Slyphhur
post Jan 14 2010, 09:32 PM
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Hmm, well since there are lots of different connotations with all these titles, i just call myself an occultic practicioner


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Acid09
post Jan 14 2010, 10:51 PM
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In our modern society I thought a warlock was the male counter part to a witch. But then again who wants to be known as an oath breaker?

Let me liken this to the field of psychology (you could do this with any major study as well). But in the broad field of psychology you can add the word psychologist to any of the following words: forensic, behavioral, existential, biological, social, environmental, child, truama, neuro, clinical, addictions, marketing, research, death, business and probably a few others I forgot as well.

You have the entire field of psychology and each of these types of psychologists are specialist within it. Yet they've all taken the same basic classes! In a weekend seminar, minus years gained by experience, you could train a social psychologist how to be a neuropsychologist... ok so no you can't because that requires a medical degree I believe... but say a social psychologst to a clinical psychologist. Everything they've learned in many ways over lap and it wouldn't be very hard for one specialist to take what ever classes to become whatever other title they want to hold. Some actually hold multiple titles!

So looking at the world of the occult and spiritualism I see a similar situation where people can become this or that title and really what does it mean? If you specialize in one area it might make sense to go by a title that reflects that and distinguishes you from some other specialist and yet there is probably a lot of common knowledge between similar specialist. I guess the point I'm making that personally I have found it to be nothing more than semantics to argue over titles. I just go by occultist.


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VitalWinds
post Jan 17 2010, 02:13 AM
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I just go by "practitioner of magick". That way I don't get any stereotypical associations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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