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 How Does One Become A Extremely Talented Magician?, Magicians
Shogunronin
post Dec 23 2008, 07:03 AM
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If someone wanted to become a extremely talented magician how would he go about it? Is 'talent' in the arts an aft form or can it be achieved through hard work and dedication? I believe my current magikal skill and ability is very limited as I have only done a few servitor magik rituals. I want to be very honest here and say I am extremely critical of magik and if it even exists. I have contemplated dedicating a entire life to this and gaining incredible skills but I just need to know it's real so that I know it is not a life wasted. I feel in myself I have been ignored by every entity that is out there as I have never had a run in with one and feel kind of helpless.
I have a question that goes out to the most respected on this forum in that if you were to start from the beggining where would you start to get the fastest results possible? my interests lie in evoking entities and servitor/egregore magik. Alot of my ideas in the past have been a little crazy but I really want to do this the right way and you can be sure your advice will be followed to the roots. Any tips?

Thank you and happy holidays.

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al_zaine
post Dec 23 2008, 09:56 AM
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Hey there. First of all, i'm not one of those most respected practioners on this forum but I wanted to offer some advice which you can use if you want.
Some people will say that people are born with certain abilities, like musicians and such, other believe you can be as good as the best through hard work and devotion. I like to believe in the latter but whether its correct is another thing. Personally, if you want to get anywhere you need to get rid of those doubts, its full commitment or none atall. Why would an entitiy from another realm want to help you if you don't fully believe it is there and it is helping you, that would be abit insulting really, right?
Once you open yourself to the full plethora of the magical world automatically things will happen, you just have to believe. This cover must of your questions really from my perspective. It will enhance and hasten all things that you set your sights on. Just believe.
It can be intimidating when theres a whole world out there and the many millenia that have passed where people have practised magick and you feel that you are way behind but honestly, all is NOW and NOTHING is wasted. Believe, commit and go with it and before you know it you won't even be asking yourself if you can be or are an extremely talented magician, its all you, you just gotta let it flourish.
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Happy Christmas!

This post has been edited by al_zaine: Dec 23 2008, 09:58 AM

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Imperial Arts
post Dec 23 2008, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE(Shogunronin @ Dec 23 2008, 05:03 AM) *

If someone wanted to become a extremely talented magician how would he go about it?


When I meet one, I'll ask and let you know.

Learn and experiment.

So you've done "a few servitor rituals." OK, think about where you got those, what went into developing them, and how well you did them. Does the answer to any of those questions seem like the sort of thing you expect from a great magician?

There is no foolproof guard against failure. Any honest magician fails, but you are guaranteed to get nothing if you do nothing. For the moment, forget about whatever ideas you have and pick something from someone else you consider reputable. Anything! Maybe even several different things. But abandon your ideas about how it should work and how you could do it better, and just follow the formulae. Perform spells, rituals, or whatever it is that appeals to you, but make an effort to do it right and to do it with some diligence.

You cannot ask "What can I write that will make me a great writer?" or "What can I paint that will make me a great artist?" You pick something, pick a method of execution, and perform it to the best of your ability.


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Aphrodite
post Dec 23 2008, 09:25 PM
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My advice for becoming a talented and powerful magician (not in any particular order):

1) Experiment with all types and styles of magic because you may find that some are better suited for you than others, such as one is more effective with candle magic than sigilization. But also master many other occult styles.
2) Find some spiritual guidance.
3) Work magic as much as possible.
4) Master some sort of divination, not necessarily tarot, since I know some people who are excellent at reading playing cards or tea leaves.
5) Feel comfortable around “ghost”, graveyards, the dead, and any other paranormal activities.
6) Work with spiritual beings whether it is elements, ancestors, angel, demons, totems or saints.
7) Master protection, cleansing and spiritual defense.
8) Be knowledgeable about the occult and all other forms of magic.

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Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 24 2008, 08:01 AM
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The same way you become excellent at anything else, practice...
The more you do it the better you get.
This is a fundamental law of the universe.


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Shogunronin
post Dec 26 2008, 07:48 PM
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I just want to say thank you alot for all of you're guidance and advice, i've noted them all down and I've been going through alot of the posts on this website and taking notes. I decided to purchase the book 'Modern Magick' By Donald Michael Craig to assist me. I saw it was reccomended by the site. I've just been going through the first chapters and spending ALOT of time on paying attention to detail and practicing hard. I think the book is really well done from what I've read so far. I made my own 'ritual diary' to note down all of my workings which I saw in the book.

I saw that the book has been purchased by a really large amount of people and a question evokes. Won't some of the spirits who are mentioned in the book be really ANNOYED if suddenly loads and loads of people are evoking them at once?! I mean it's like having to go up and answer the door 100 times a day it would be really frustrating. I have a deep interest in evocation but I don't particularly want to annoy the spirits and be another one of those 100. Is this the right mind set or do I have it wrong?

Shogun Ronin.

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Silver Dragon
post Dec 27 2008, 03:30 PM
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We are talking about spiritual, transdimensional beings. Man's concepts of time and space simply do not apply to them.

Deities/spirits have the power to be in millions of places at once. We need not worry about "bothering" them anymore than we need worry about bothering (G)od.


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Dreamer
post Dec 28 2008, 05:24 AM
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The general traits that I believe a magician must possess and weren't mentioned are:

To be able and silence the mind at will.
To maximize the ability to visualize. Visualizations must be extremely clear, and it must be the only thing within the mind of the magician while performing the ritual.
To be flexible within the ritual (i.e. adapting correct pronouciation, movement, etc).
Generally, to be able to direct and focus the five senses in the steps of the ritual, the area, the incense, the robes and their significance, the result, etc.

And I want to make clear that when I'm talking about visualization, I'm not referring only to the creation of some plain images, but of things that can be perceived and also felt from all the senses.


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Agni
post Jan 15 2009, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(Dreamer @ Dec 28 2008, 01:24 PM) *

The general traits that I believe a magician must possess and weren't mentioned are:

To be able and silence the mind at will.
To maximize the ability to visualize. Visualizations must be extremely clear, and it must be the only thing within the mind of the magician while performing the ritual.
To be flexible within the ritual (i.e. adapting correct pronouciation, movement, etc).
Generally, to be able to direct and focus the five senses in the steps of the ritual, the area, the incense, the robes and their significance, the result, etc.

And I want to make clear that when I'm talking about visualization, I'm not referring only to the creation of some plain images, but of things that can be perceived and also felt from all the senses.


After 9 years of magical work (I started with Modern Magick and Initiation Into Hermetics) I'm glad that I have all these points covered (in my personal - and probably biased opinion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)) , however I'm afraid a moderate mental adepthood isn't enough if one wants to become an extremely talented magician.

One crucial point is to not become swayed by mundane life. If you have been doing the LBRP and MP once a day in a hurry in order to spare more time for playing WOW or whatever; uninstall WOW and start doing LBRP, LBRP, RC, MP and also SIRP (on another time) each day. Include skrying or meditation where you used to have browsing 4chan.

You don't think an excellent martial artist only shadow boxes five mins a day and sits on his ass the rest of the day, do you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I admit I don't always practice like I preach, but I believe - like others have said in this thread - that the only way to become better is by practicing more.

This post has been edited by Agni: Jan 15 2009, 09:17 PM

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Agni
post Jan 16 2009, 12:28 PM
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Hmm.. Somehow my post doesn't make as much sense as I intended last night. Well here's one more thought; IMHO it's a good idea to aim for practical results early on, i.e. when you are comfortable with Middle Pillar (check out Regardie's How To Make and Use Talismans, there's a torrent of it around), why not use it to charge a talisman..

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zyguh
post Feb 2 2009, 01:40 AM
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Buy Intitiation Into Hermetics. Read the entire book thru at least 3 times to make sure you understand the entire path the way Bardon lays it out.

Then turn to page one, and start reading and THIS TIME do the exercises EXACTLY as Bardon gives them in the book. Keep working each step exactly as described, until you have achieved the exact results that Bardon describes, exactly as he describes them. This means, among other things, that you do the work with the elements and dont stop until you can light fires, and put them out, can call up rain or send it away, fill small objects with air element and make them levitate, etc. ALL the results Bardon gives int he book, you should work at the exercises until you can do them. (and keep doing these exercises the rest of your life to make sure you are constantly improving your skill and powers)

Somewhere in the pages around the 260's when you begin working with magic mirrors, you will realize that you have become an extremely talented Magician. Hopefully that realization will inspire you to finish the work and complete the rest of the steps given by Bardon.

Seriously, work your way through Bardons first book and you will be an amazing Magician.

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Wiggs1992
post Feb 19 2009, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE(zyguh @ Feb 2 2009, 01:40 AM) *

Buy Intitiation Into Hermetics. Read the entire book thru at least 3 times to make sure you understand the entire path the way Bardon lays it out.

Would just like to say Initiation Into Hermetics is available online for free, nab it before its gone.
http://highmagic.net/pdf/initiation.pdf

Hopefully it never gets removed but you never know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/kicking.gif)


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esoterica
post Feb 23 2009, 11:15 AM
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worth a grab and a thorough read through, regardless of one's heremetic alignment or otherwise

some really great knowledge in there!

thanks for the link


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flyingmojo
post Feb 24 2009, 03:30 PM
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I would say that any magician who devotes him/herself to this book, would become an adept: http://www.amazon.com/Concentration-Guide-...35510836&sr=8-1

You can get it online here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1974578

This post has been edited by flyingmojo: Feb 24 2009, 03:30 PM


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Kath
post Oct 14 2009, 08:26 AM
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If you're not sure that magick is even real, then I think you'd want to deal with that issue in and of itself before looking at how to become an extremely talented magician. To an experienced magi, what you're saying sounds a little bit like "I don't know the girl very well, but I was wondering how I should go about making a happy marriage with her?" If I were you I'd devote a lot more time to this issue before thinking about how to be a great magician. That said...

If I may make a conceit, I consider myself to better at magick than most... but I do not consider myself an "extremely talented" magician, quite the opposite actually. So anything I would say to answer this question, would be "conjecture" not the wisdom of experience. I do have a lot of experience in a magical path, but I have zero experience at being an extremely talented magician. I guess my point is that this is true for 'almost' everyone. I suspect that most of everything else shared as advice here is also conjecture. It's just a thought to bear in mind when mulling it all over, that "advice is common, and knowledge less so". That said, I don't disagree with any of the previous pieces of advice, on the contrary, I've added a couple books to my amazon.com wishlist. But do understand that any advice is 'advice' not gospel. And that any advice I would have to offer would be the advice of someone aspiring towards the goal, who has spent some lengthy time pursuing it, but has not achieved the goal yet. It is easy and straightforward to say "this is how I got to where I am", and it is easy to say "this is how I THINK one might progress past where I am", but don't let anyone say "This is how you progress past where I am" because it's all an educated guess at that point. And unfortunately, you're asking for insight which reaches beyond where many of us (perhaps 'any' of us) have already climbed. So have your grain of salt ready.

Curiosity - The nature of any such path is always exploration, unveiling knowledge, understanding, peering into that which is arcane ("hidden"). To excel in it, I would say that you must have an innate curiosity which has a 'ferocious appetite'.

Open Mindedness - You can't learn from anything you 'dismiss'. So dismiss nothing, and learn from everything.

Cynicism - This is the counterpart to open mindedness, if you really want to uncover deep understandings yet avoid the pitfalls of faulty info, then you must wield openmindedness in one hand, and cynicism in the other, and cut your way through everything there is to cut. Neither should be your preference, and everything you touch with one, you should touch with the other as well. Understand the universe of ideas as a realm of possibility and imagination and diverse perspective. Without planting yourself so firmly into a particular idea that you lose the ability to touch other ideas with openmindedness. And without being so ungrounded that you become too easily swayed.

Read - I won't say read this book or that, but do read. Read with reckless abandon.

Do - Hands on experience is worth a thousand tired lectures on methodology. Practice, do, experiment, touch, fondle, prod, make your magical experience tactile, visceral, and personal. First and foremost, LEARN BY DOING.

Astral Project - Get out of body, do it any way that you can get to work. Explore, learn, contemplate, see through different eyes. Know your reality as a many layered thing, and touch those layers first hand.

Nonhuman Resource - I don't care what sort of being it is, do your best to gain the insight of a nonhuman entity. It affords you a level of perspective, insight, and paradigm shift which is impossible if other humans are your only resource for ideas & understanding.

Logic - Understand logical flaws in thinking. For example, lack of proof is not a disproof. Lack of disproof is not a proof. These two stand out as particularly meaningful. For example, if you do magick, and it does not work, it is not a disproof of your magick. Likewise, if you do magick and it does work, it is not a proof of it. Things such as this are only evidence which offers some insight into the probability of the magick's effectiveness, they are not proof of anything. There are many other examples, a formal study of logic would be useful.

Determination - There is no quick & simple digest of everything you need to know to be an extremely talented magician. I firmly believe you will NOT find all of that in any single pre-made path, or book series, or practicing method, or religion, etc. And there will be times when you are simply at a loss as to how to progress further. Make your Will to achieve and learn as a magician into an unstoppable force. Let nothing stand in it's way. nothing. Make your approach to magick itself into your most powerful magical working, a forging of will and intent and energy and determination that knows no bounds and will not be stopped.

Relentlessness - For every obstacle to your knowledge, crash through it, circumvent it, erode it, undermine it, go over it, even seduce it into opening for you. Let no method go unused in breaking down the barriers of your path to knowledge. And where one barrier stands un-phased, assault other barriers until such time as you find a weakness to the former and return to it with new ammunition. Assault knowledge like the force of water, pour through every opening that gives way. Crash relentlessly against every barrier, find the weak spot in each, and overcome it. Nothing can stop water from returning to the sea, not even mountains of rock. In time, all obstacles fall to its rushing force. Be like that towards your magical goals.

Anti-Pride - When doing your magick, sure you are an unstoppable force, etc. But when contemplating how you're doing, focus on your shortcomings. The minute you start to think in terms of "gee I'm pretty great aren't I?" is the minute you lose your thirst and motivation and drive. When enacting Will, be great. When contemplating progress, don't let any achievement, or sense of pride, or egotism, stand between you and a continued insatiable thirst for 'more'. Do NOT be a rabbit that sleeps before the finish line. Don't be a slow turtle either. Be a rocket powered drag racing car that never sleeps and shows your uncompleted path no mercy. Be prideful, be mighty, but don't let that EVER interfere with a perfectionistic and relentless pursuit of your path. Any self critique, for the purpose of advancement or self betterment, should always reflect zero pride.

Teachers - Beware of those who fancy themselves 'gurus' or 'teachers' who seem to have said "gee i'm pretty great aren't I?", their growth is dead, and they have little of value for you. They may even seem to be drawn to the light of your persistence & determination to push onward. They are dead weight and would only slow you down. Pick their brain for anything novel, and move on. That said, do not disrespect ANY potential source of knowledge, that is the first step towards self limiting pride. And understand that not all 'teachers' are prideful... just most of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif) The reluctant teacher is often the best teacher (unless their reluctance is just a further example of their pride). Myself I poitedly avoid the role of teacher because I don't like the effect it has on me psychologically, and I loathe to think that anyone should listen to what I have to say and accept any of it blindly, or lack a perspective of their own. To find my ideas or input being accepted as dogma is a very unpleasant experience.

Multi-task - Work your understanding like a crossword puzzle, use previous answers to fill in blanks to new questions, and don't be afraid to skip around a lot. And then understand this to be a very complex crossword puzzle, which exists in 3-D (or more) when you start to consider differing paradigms and their interrelationship. Don't be afraid to have a hundred unfinished explorations at once. You're not going to be able to just complete them all sequentially. Don't waste any time, pour your efforts into whatever is giving way to you in that moment, and temporarily set aside things that aren't. Which isn't to say that you should approach things with a wishy-washy lack of confidence or determination, remember your exploration of the arcane is an 'unstoppable force'. Just maximize the fruitfulness of your time.

Know Thyself - "You" is a being which you are only very superficially aware of. The more you uncover this creature called 'self', and the more you integrate that into one harmonious holistic self-being, the more potent your magic will be. Explore yourself psychologically and spiritually. Peer into those dark corners, loose the skeletons from their closets, ask yourself the questions you dare not ask, consider every facet of self, and embrace 'the whole' instead of letting some facets of self shun others. Become one holistic substantial being, instead of just the veneer of a being you largely don't know.


or something like that...
I feel like I'm forgetting a lot of really important points actually. In fact, I am certain that I am.

This post has been edited by Kath: Oct 14 2009, 08:41 AM


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Xenomancer
post Oct 14 2009, 11:37 AM
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QUOTE
Myself I poitedly avoid the role of teacher because I don't like the effect it has on me psychologically, and I loathe to think that anyone should listen to what I have to say and accept any of it blindly, or lack a perspective of their own. To find my ideas or input being accepted as dogma is a very unpleasant experience.
Unless that is the very issue you wish to teach them!!

AWESOME post!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/respect.gif) Truly awesome!! I am saving your post to text. I want to use this as a standard, not because I 'accept' it, but because it 'makes the most sense to me.'

Thank you!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohyeah.gif)


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-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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xXDaemonReignXx
post Oct 14 2009, 02:10 PM
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Amen Brother.


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Nes
post Nov 27 2009, 08:23 PM
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Hello everyone. This is my first post. I am glad to find a place where we can discuss magick.

I've recently started works of magick, but I would like to give my opinion on "how to become a great magician".

The first benefits I am getting from the rituals is dominate my own mind. Which means, I conduct my state of mind: if I am alone I can manage to get to the state of mind I want, and when I am with other people, I can correctly deal with the words and the influence I get from others, in order to maintain my wills and get what I want.

I think that if you manage to get self control and brightness, so that you can deal skillfully with anything in the daily life, than that's one hell of a power you have in hands.

I myself don't believe in entities, I believe in my higher self, which I don't think will ever stop me from being a good magician. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dance2.gif)


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