Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
 Thaumaturgy and Theurgy, Why aren't these terms used?
DocHolliday
post Jul 10 2005, 02:58 PM
Post #1


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 72
Age: N/A
Reputation: none




With all the bickering over terms (magic vs magick, high magic vs low magic, etc) why can't people simply use thaumaturgy and theurgy? Miracle-working and god-working. I mean really, how hard can it be?

//end pointless rant


--------------------
www.livejournal.com/users/tenebrozo

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post


A_Smoking_Fox
post Jul 10 2005, 04:48 PM
Post #2


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 465
Age: N/A
From: Belgium
Reputation: 3 pts




I think regardie uses the term theurgy in his books, when he means high magick.
But i think high magick can be a broader term than theurgy.


--------------------
In LVX,
Frater A.V.I.A.F.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

DocHolliday
post Jul 10 2005, 05:23 PM
Post #3


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 72
Age: N/A
Reputation: none




QUOTE(A_Smoking_Fox @ Jul 10 2005, 05:48 PM)
I think regardie uses the term theurgy in his books, when he means high magick.
But i think high magick can be a broader term than theurgy.

I'm aware of this. The excessive labelling and distinctions are what I'm starting to find tiresome (and I'm not even all that active in the "magical community," as it were).

Try to look at it from the standpoint of Kabbalistic nomenclature. One either works toward practical results (thus Kabbalah Ma'asith) or towards contemplative (or enlightenment-oriented) results (thus Kabbalah Iyunith). This is the basic line of demarcation between miracle-working (thaumaturgy) and god-working (theurgy).


--------------------
www.livejournal.com/users/tenebrozo

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

gavriel
post Sep 12 2005, 04:16 AM
Post #4


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 33
Age: N/A
From: Texas, unfortunatly.
Reputation: none




i think is has more to do with the fact that not many people know what those terms mean. So for the sake of the ignorant among us, me included, we try to keep it as monosyllabic as possible.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

bym
post Sep 12 2005, 05:04 AM
Post #5


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




greetings!
There is a good book out there that illustrates and explains the two words here. "Real Magic" by Bonewits comes to mind.


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

DocHolliday
post Sep 12 2005, 08:59 AM
Post #6


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 72
Age: N/A
Reputation: none




Don't mind me. I just have an aversion to the use of "magic" for what I do. Adding a "k" to the end just makes it worse.

Oh well, at least "magick" is usefull when performing a google search (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol_2.gif)


--------------------
www.livejournal.com/users/tenebrozo

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Praxis
post Mar 2 2006, 06:29 PM
Post #7


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




I suspect that people do not use the terms thaumaturgy and theurgy because those words just don't sound cool.

One of the issues that I have come to grips with over the years is that many people become interested in topics, various practices, and use various terms based upon how cool they sound.

If more snazzier sounding words were chosen and used, I suspect that they would hook attention much faster.



Yeah, I know. It's sad.

But the sad part is not that it seems stupid to do. The sad part is that the vast majority of the time, the "make it sound cool" rule is most often true.



Some suggestions that I have for more cool sounding terms would be something like:

Dominaric Magick (instead of thaumaturgy). This suggests one who uses magick for dominating their environment. One who uses dominaric magick would be called a Dominar; and,

Kultanic Magick (instead of theurgy). This suggests one who uses magic for cultivating spiritual development (i.e. The Great Work). One who uses Kultanic magick would be called a Kultan.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

bym
post Mar 2 2006, 08:45 PM
Post #8


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




Innovative but lacking or even misconstruing the definitions. You're perhaps correct in your assessment though it would be better to use these terms (theurgy/thaumaturgy) often, to 'reintroduce' them into the language. *sigh* They are perfectly lovely words. (Like Gramarye) In my youth the now accepted 'word' "ain't" wasn't even in the dictionary (neither was quark, internet, etc.) Time changes all things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/book.gif)


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Radiant Star
post Mar 3 2006, 03:40 AM
Post #9


Theoricus
Group Icon
Posts: 766
Age: N/A
Gender: Female
Reputation: 3 pts




QUOTE(bym @ Mar 3 2006, 02:45 AM) *
Innovative but lacking or even misconstruing the definitions. You're perhaps correct in your assessment though it would be better to use these terms (theurgy/thaumaturgy) often, to 'reintroduce' them into the language. *sigh* They are perfectly lovely words. (Like Gramarye) In my youth the now accepted 'word' "ain't" wasn't even in the dictionary (neither was quark, internet, etc.) Time changes all things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/book.gif)


I use the word gramarye and have done since I started my magickal journalling but although I disliked adding the 'k' to magick, you soon realize it is the most useful spelling when online with other magickians; I did see that this spelling was used in former times too, so if that is correct, its not just a convenient Googleization. He he.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Praxis
post Mar 14 2006, 09:55 AM
Post #10


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




I encountered an old friend today and brought this topic up in convo with him - and he suggested the following:

Thaumaturgy = miracle work
Theurgy = mystical work

And both of those (miracle and mystical work) are kinds of magickal work, albeit according to different ways.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

bym
post Mar 14 2006, 06:00 PM
Post #11


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




I like the definitions given in Bonewits book "Real Magic".
"Thaumaturgy: the use of magic for nonreligous purposes; the art and science of "wonder working"; using magic to actually change things on the Earth Plane." amd
"Theurgy: the use of magic for religous and/or psychotherapeutic purposes, in order to attain "salvation" or "personal evolution."

Gee whiz! almost exactly what you said! *grin*


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mikagon
post Dec 29 2011, 09:42 PM
Post #12


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 3
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Antalya.
Reputation: none




Sorry for performing necromancy on this topic. Luckily, for those who are interested, two Adepts have decided to incarnate and decided to show others what True Theurgy, The Heart of Hermeticism is. Now they're holding online classes. If you are interested make sure you contact me so i can give out the necessary details. The reason, my friend, why they are not being talked about is because nobody actually knows in essence what Theurgy is, it's practical uses, what topics it covers, where its roots dwell and the likes. I have no intention of advertising my teachers, but merely showing people some directions.

Also, I was a forum lurker, i intend to post more from now on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hideingbhindcurtian.gif)


--------------------
www.thedivinescience.org

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Closed
Topic Notes
Reply to this topicStart new topic

Collapse

Similar Topics

Topic Title Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
No entries to display

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st July 2017 - 12:38 AM