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 Consciousness Of Border Between Wake And Sleep
Xochipilli
post Dec 23 2006, 07:34 PM
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Something that used to happen all the time when I was younger, especially when I was around 13-15 has started happening the odd time to me lately again. Its not just sleep paralysis but while im paralysed just as im fallling asleep I can consciously watch all the stages of me falling asleep. Its truly intersting shit. First thing right after Im paralysed is I hear a loud ringing or winding rushing in my ear sound and I get the feeling of my face caving in. Well thats the best way I can explain it anyway.

A weird thing I notice is when it happens to me which is very rare nowadays is it happens over and over again in one night. I start to fall asleep and for some reason Im fully aware of it and something scares the crap outta me so I pull myself back out of the sleep state. Its never easy waking myself up I always struggle and have to try and move my shoulders from side to side until I actually do. Most of the time what scares me is I see these black shadows or figures flying around the room and seemingly pulling myself into the sleep state. Im usually uneasy about the idea of me falling asleep in the presence of these shadows so I give it all I have and wake myself up. Its always a hard thing to do for me pulling myself out of paralasys.

A long time ago I learned to get over the fear barrier and just observe the situation without reacting to it. Its some interesting shit. Its usually fairly fast between the state when Im paralysed and seeing black until the point where I start visualising and creating images. I read in one of Robert Monroes books that this point between wake and sleep is the best time to leave your body and astral travel. Everytime I find myself conscious of falling asleep I try to leave my body but never with any success. Ive actually become pretty good at slowly falling asleep and pulling myself out not enough to be fully awake but just enough so I dont fall into unconscious sleep.

My attempts to leave my body in these states only result in lucid dreams but fairly potent ones. I always have a dream that Ive left my body but every time I consider the possibility of it being a dream and thats when I realize it is.

What am I doing wrong here?? How come I only end up in a lucid dream instead of actually leaving my body when Im bordering between sleep and wake?

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Faustopheles
post Dec 23 2006, 07:59 PM
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Greetings Xochipilli,

Real-time Astral Projection requires three major steps.

1. Entering the trance state (essentially a form of sleep-paralysis)
2. Projecting some of your conscious mind into your ethereal/astral body
3. Dislodging from your physical body

Funny things happen if you do not complete all three steps. An example is right before you fall asleep or wake when it seems that you cannot move, your eyes are closed and yet you can see your room. Here you have accomplished the trance state and the initial astral projection (of consciousness to your astral body), but have not dislodged. You have essentially projected within your physical body and thus can use your ethereal eyes to see through your eyelids. This seems to be what you are describing

I suggest you practice wake-induced Astral projection while meditating. The Robert Bruce ROPE method is a rather simple technique for applying the proper pressure on your astral body to dislodge. It basically consists of mentally rehearsing that you are climbing a rope (without moving a muscle); this exerts pressure on your astral body that causes it to float out of your physical shell. It takes some practice, but is by far the simplest method. THere are copies of his articles here at the SM library, and you may find some stuff on his website Astral Dynamics.

Good Luck

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Xochipilli
post Dec 24 2006, 04:58 PM
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That would definately explain a few things. Ive noticed that alot of the time at the point where I just start visualising I visualise things that are in the room usually directly in front of me. I just thought that I was sleeping and dreaming with my eyes open but it didnt add up because most of the time id wake up with my eyes closed and the objects were in front of me but I dont sleep with my head tilted up I usually sleep facing the ceiling or I sleep sideways.

The thing is though I pick up things in my room in real dreams right before I wake up in the morning. For example I had a lucid dream one day when I was on an ice rink and there was an army tank but the cannon on it was a large multicolored bong. When I woke up I noticed I was staring directly at my multicolored bong. Could I have been sleeping with my eyes open?? If thats the case how could I focus on it to integrate it into my dream? I thought that when we dream our eyes defocalize and rotate all over or roll back into our heads regardless of whether our eyes are open. I had a friend who slept with his eyes open and all I could ever see was white. His pupils always rolled upwards towards his brain.

QUOTE
The Robert Bruce ROPE method is a rather simple technique for applying the proper pressure on your astral body to dislodge.

Ive always improvised my own techniques but they never work. I try to move and drive forward with my spirit but I usually end up just moving my physical body. Or else dreaming that Im moving my physical body because loads of times when I try it I dream I wake up and get out of bed but realize its just a dream.

Last night I had one of these conscious sleep paralysis experiences and tried my best to leave my body. This time I tried the mirror technique, visualising me floating over my body staring at it but thats all I remember. Something went wrong and I fell unconscious. Something I see I havent mastered in the borderline state is I jump way to fast from sleep to wake. When I feel im too deep and about to fall unconscious I pull myself out of it but I seem to leap really far and close to being fully awake. I think I need to learn to stabilize myself between the two states rather than just wait till im almost asleep then jolt myself back to a near wakeful state. Like everything I get better with practice.

What should I think about when im trying to leave my body??

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Faustopheles
post Dec 24 2006, 05:48 PM
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I think you should really read Robert Bruce, his theoretical approach to Astral Projection might help you understand these experiences you have as different forms of OOBE.Look for his Treatise on Astral Projection .

QUOTE
The thing is though I pick up things in my room in real dreams right before I wake up in the morning. For example I had a lucid dream one day when I was on an ice rink and there was an army tank but the cannon on it was a large multicolored bong. When I woke up I noticed I was staring directly at my multicolored bong. Could I have been sleeping with my eyes open?? If thats the case how could I focus on it to integrate it into my dream? I thought that when we dream our eyes defocalize and rotate all over or roll back into our heads regardless of whether our eyes are open. I had a friend who slept with his eyes open and all I could ever see was white. His pupils always rolled upwards towards his brain.


The fact that you can see your room when you are sleeping does not mean that you sleep with your eyes open. Rather it is your astral eyes that "see" the room while your physical eyes remain closed (and yes, they usually roll back). My guess as to your bong/tank dream is that your mind was split into dual physical-astral counterparts. Your astral body was seeing your room and thus recording the bong in the memory of astral consciousness and your physical mind was having a subconscious dream. At the moment that you begin to wake and the astral body reintegrates with the physical body, both sets of memories combine to produce the tank/bong imagery.

This might sound confusing, but it is based on a quite simple theory that your mind (hard-copy) makes an astral duplicate during a projection. If your physical mind falls asleep your duplicate astral mind is temporally locked out of your physical body. It continues recording data separate from the hard-copy physical mind and can not rejoin your physical body until the physical mind wakes. The combination of both sets of memories is a recipe for strange dreams with an almost lucid feel to them. All this is explained by Robert Bruce.

The point of a real-time astral projection is to retain enough consciousness so that you are in control of your real-time astral Self and can thus explore the astral realm. This is achieved through trance states rather than full on sleeping/dreaming. You should really start practicing this in a seated posture so that you do not fall asleep. When your physical mind falls asleep and starts dreaming, chances are your astral body is in projection but the recorded memories will be overwritten by the subconscious dreams of the hard-copy physical mind. You will only have small glimpses of the astral projection, such as in your Tank/Bong dream.

QUOTE
What should I think about when im trying to leave my body??


I'm like you in that I can visualize things rather vividly; however, I found that this is a disadvantage for astral projection.

My advice is to clear your mind and make an attempt to NOT visualize anything. Instead think about upward movement, what it would FEEL like to stand up, climb a rope, climb a latter, etc.; don't focus on what it would look like. When you rehearse this in your mind you will at first feel a desire to move the muscles that correspond to such a feeling, this will pass and in little time you will realize that your body begins to vibrate as your chakras open and the astral self expends. If you maintain focus during this experience you will dislodge. The natural pressure you have placed on your astral Self will result in a feeling of floating above your physical body. You will notice that your point of view has changed. This is astral projection, from here begin to explore the new reality that lies before you.

Remember it is FEELING upward movement that is more important than seeing it. Good Luck

This post has been edited by Faustopheles: Dec 24 2006, 06:11 PM

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Enochian
post Dec 26 2006, 02:00 PM
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You have accomplished much just to do what you have. Here are a few things to help leave. Practice with a watcher. This is when you "blow' your ethereal body out through your third chakra. You see this chakra has a powerful link to the astral. First begin with just visualizing and feel your energy flow out through the third chakra. As you do this visualize a human shape or point of light that leaves you and has a link to you. This ethereal becomes a watcher as you practice to walk around or even spy with it. Be warned make sure you ALWAYS bring this energy back into yourself, and try not to give this "entity" to much of a life. I have never had problems with it but ive learned that this ethereal can gain an ego of its own. It will begin to use what it learns from waching and from communication with yourself. Eventually you will have a powerful part of yourself that can be used for many interesting and beneficial things. And last but not least this will help you get out of body better. This watcher technique can be used anytime not just in meditation. Just make sure you are single minded and focused when working with it.

When you are in the state of paralysis and close to leaving feel and visualize your physical bodies vibration and than feel the differant usually faster vibe of your energy body. Now use your energy body to rock back and forth in the physical one until its so obvious you are seperated. than just roll all the way over when you feel the time is right. This works well at any time but i have had obe's while sitting and in trance many times by this mode. The other is to float but im sure you guys no that one already. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

By the way the state between the awake and asleep is a perfect place to practice. Monroe would call this state the "twilight". maybe of interest you can use a real twilight and travel that way also.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Dec 26 2006, 02:26 PM


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plainsight
post Dec 28 2006, 10:49 PM
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I've had a few incidents in which I was aware I was going to sleep. To me it felt like I was diving into something like a well or tunnel. I guess the brain has it's reason for avoiding this process in most people. When I start to feel a dive coming on I usually try to wake myself and let my brain reset before trying to sleep. There's really no need to force a dream.

This post has been edited by plainsight: Dec 28 2006, 10:50 PM

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Enochian
post Jan 5 2007, 04:56 PM
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You never force a dream just influence where and what you choose to do in it. I would seriously consider letting yourself go further in one of these falls. Unless you dont care to delve deeper in the rabbit hole.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Jan 5 2007, 04:57 PM


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"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". Abrahadabra


Om Bhur Bhuva Suvah
Tat Savithur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yonah Prachodayat

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Xochipilli
post Jan 8 2007, 09:43 AM
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Happened to me again last night that I watched myself drifting into sleep. It happened about 5 times until I rolled over and changed position. I noticed if it happens once and you wake yourself up dont move a muscle stay in the same position and dont wake yourself up too much and it will keep happening. The first noticable effects was of course the weird vibrating feeling I get every single time.

After that I noticed a few odd details. The first 2 or 3 times just as I was falling asleep I noticed I could hear voices. I could hear some conversation of a woman and mans voice. The last time I heard music playing and it got real loud right before I woke myself up.

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Enochian
post Jan 8 2007, 03:58 PM
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A short time after the vibes you should be able to exit.

Trust in time: be convinced that success is about to come. As you know: a train is bound to reach the next station because he has to follow the rails. It's only a matter of time. In this case you are fully confident: you don't worry if the rails were put in the right direction, if the conductor knows how to drive and so on. Likewise trust your inner processes. Yet it's very important that your train's engine has enough power to reach the station. And this power you add by every repetition of your exercise
Franz Bardon

This post has been edited by Enochian: Jan 8 2007, 07:56 PM


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"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". Abrahadabra


Om Bhur Bhuva Suvah
Tat Savithur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yonah Prachodayat

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valkyrie
post Feb 18 2007, 02:02 PM
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i have a question.

music doesnt seem to be an exclusive phenomenon between the sleep and wake state...i have it all the time, but it seems that many people do...can anyone explain to me what the music is? It can be really loud. And its woken me into an astral state more than once.

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Xochipilli
post Feb 21 2007, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE
music doesnt seem to be an exclusive phenomenon between the sleep and wake state.

When it happened to me it was heavy metal music playing and the further i let myself drift into sleep the louder it got. What kind of music do you hear??

I had the conscious sliding into sleep thing again a while ago. Unfortunately this time I couldnt experiment much because i felt these crazy vibrations drilling into my back. They got so heavy it felt like someone drilling a jackhammer into my back. Being slightly asleep i kept wondering if it was happening in real life so id wake myself up and the vibrations would disappear. Since i didnt change positions i kept consciously sliding and the vibrations kept coming back. At one point i got worried it was going to damage my internal organs so i woke myself up and turned rolled over. I noticed a pillow was touching my back slightly where the vibrations were. Since I changed positions i wasnt conscious next time i fell asleep. Pity.

This post has been edited by Xochipilli: Feb 21 2007, 09:57 PM

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J*S
post Feb 22 2007, 02:37 AM
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If you can get it, I would recommend picking up a copy of "Hypnagogia: The Unique State of Consciousness Between Wakefulness and Sleep". It is something of a cult classic and costly if you buy it through formal channels, but a scour of the second-hand bookshops and charity shops may pay dividends.

Sleep paralysis can be a bitch. I encountered it for the first time just before Christmas and it freaked me out. Establishing regular sleep patterns may help, as well as taking melatonin supplements. Also, if you are using any chemicals that might influence your serotonin levels then cutting these out probably wouldn't hurt. There is also the old folk-remedy. Hang a hag-stone over your bed!


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Xochipilli
post Feb 22 2007, 11:21 AM
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I dont get the paralysis part much anymore. Nowadays usually when I pull myself outta sleep im fully mobile again so I can roll over but thats always a mistake. The minute i roll over i dont automatically drift into conscious sleep. Paralysis used to scare the shit outta me but now i like it. Once im paralysed i can experiment with sleep. Its only a problem when you want to move. I find trying your best to move your shoulders from side to side pulls you out of it. Its never easy though.

What used to always scare the crap outta me was drifting into sleep consciously and all the weird shit that happens in between like the loud noises and vibrations. Once I got past that initial fear barrier it never bothered me anymore so i didnt need to pull myself out only when i was experimenting with it.

There has to be some way to induce this conscious sliding into dream thing. Like I said if I stay still after I pull myself out of sleep it keeps happening over and over again until I eventually just let myself drift fully into sleep.

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valkyrie
post Feb 22 2007, 01:25 PM
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Xoch--- i hear everykind of music out there...from symphony music to heavy metal to banjo music, good stuff too. Ive even had one of two pop songs, the difficulty is in remembering them...sometimes there are words sometimes its just instrumentation...and sometimes i here voices talking (although id say they are less natural and more sporadic then the music seems to be) ive consciously listened to the music and woke myself and sang it to see if it wasnt my imagination....whole scores of it...but it doesnt surprise me too much...ive had it for a while now and im a singer so im always orienting myself with sounds....i wonder if there are different techniques using that specifically? Im much more likely to project when i have a sound trigger rather then a visualization (im not very visual). The bad thing about that is when it happens i dont know im doing it, and if i want to astroproject i cant cuz i rely on external stimuli...as for the vibration thing? I dont seem to get it. I dont even get too much sensation...its not noticeable until i see my body or im in a lucid state. Unfortunately...i cant control it. im wondering if i cant Will the music to happen? Cuz ive gotten into the habit of listening for it when i close my eyes...if i can silence my mind enough (a difficult thing) i can even hear it when im awake....what's your thoughts on this?

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Heebeejeebees
post Mar 26 2007, 08:37 AM
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Something that concerns me is that nothing is being done about those black entities you describe flying about you as you drift into sleep. If it doesn't feel right in your heart then it isn't! Banish them, or send them back to where they should be.

I hear music, voices, tapings on the window, the door opening, etc, all the time when I'm aware and observant of myself falling asleep, sometimes it seems so 'loud' that it actually wakes me up* (I also see complex geometric patterns unfolding like printed circuit boards on the backs of my eyelids if I 'watch' them for long enough in the sleeping state). If that is giving you problems then I found that if you still your thoughts and give yourself a breather before going to sleep that your mind isn't so excitable.

I heard a voice saying to me 'salamander comes' over and over (at the time I didn't know anything about fire/salamander elementals) and I would 'see' a dragon on the ceiling, it would unfold it's wings and envelop me in them - even if there were lights in the room it would seem pitch black. Both of these have reptilian overtones, which matches up with the r-complex or reptilian part of the brain that comes out when 'higher' brain functions aren't so active.

*All this may be due to the release of DMT in the brain during sleep, this is the physical flipside of what your soul does when you sleep.

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: Mar 26 2007, 08:39 AM

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cantrip
post May 26 2007, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE(Faustopheles @ Dec 23 2006, 09:59 PM) *
Funny things happen if you do not complete all three steps. An example is right before you fall asleep or wake when it seems that you cannot move, your eyes are closed and yet you can see your room. Here you have accomplished the trance state and the initial astral projection (of consciousness to your astral body), but have not dislodged. You have essentially projected within your physical body and thus can use your ethereal eyes to see through your eyelids. This seems to be what you are describing


Good Luck


In my first succesful out of body experience that happened but because I frightened myself by remembering something about physical feelings, before then I walked a bit on my room

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sohazia
post Oct 1 2010, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE(Xochipilli @ Dec 23 2006, 09:34 PM) *

Something that used to happen all the time when I was younger, especially when I was around 13-15 has started happening the odd time to me lately again. Its not just sleep paralysis but while im paralysed just as im fallling asleep I can consciously watch all the stages of me falling asleep. Its truly intersting shit. First thing right after Im paralysed is I hear a loud ringing or winding rushing in my ear sound and I get the feeling of my face caving in. Well thats the best way I can explain it anyway.

A weird thing I notice is when it happens to me which is very rare nowadays is it happens over and over again in one night. I start to fall asleep and for some reason Im fully aware of it and something scares the crap outta me so I pull myself back out of the sleep state. Its never easy waking myself up I always struggle and have to try and move my shoulders from side to side until I actually do. Most of the time what scares me is I see these black shadows or figures flying around the room and seemingly pulling myself into the sleep state. Im usually uneasy about the idea of me falling asleep in the presence of these shadows so I give it all I have and wake myself up. Its always a hard thing to do for me pulling myself out of paralasys.

A long time ago I learned to get over the fear barrier and just observe the situation without reacting to it. Its some interesting shit. Its usually fairly fast between the state when Im paralysed and seeing black until the point where I start visualising and creating images. I read in one of Robert Monroes books that this point between wake and sleep is the best time to leave your body and astral travel. Everytime I find myself conscious of falling asleep I try to leave my body but never with any success. Ive actually become pretty good at slowly falling asleep and pulling myself out not enough to be fully awake but just enough so I dont fall into unconscious sleep.

My attempts to leave my body in these states only result in lucid dreams but fairly potent ones. I always have a dream that Ive left my body but every time I consider the possibility of it being a dream and thats when I realize it is.

What am I doing wrong here?? How come I only end up in a lucid dream instead of actually leaving my body when Im bordering between sleep and wake?


How does one try to 'leave' their body during this transitional state?

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☞Tomber☜
post Oct 1 2010, 06:04 PM
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sohazia, there are lots of different way people recommend. This can be from trying to "flop" out of your body to pull yourself up with a rope. I personally just use imagination. Try a couple different ways and be persistent about it.


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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