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 Solomons magick...
corbypete
post Jun 14 2005, 03:50 AM
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Why does Solomon get referenced in so many evil texts, is it because he had knowledge of all things good AND evil?
His powers were given to him by god, and then he was destroyed because of them, so how valid now are his spells, talismans, working etc. are they the TRUTH and so cannot be altered by God, or has he 'blacklisted' them making them useless?

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bym
post Jun 14 2005, 12:31 PM
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Greetings!
I moved this to Ceremonial Magic(k) as it has little to do with Sorcery.
The Intervention by the Deity in regards to Solomonic Magic is sketchy at best. Rather the secular Church and its machinations are more likely a culprit. The TRUTH is where you find it. This is an age old discussion. I've worked with a number of diverse Magical Systems over the years and found 'truth' in every one of them! These systems are reflecting various mindsets, it is up to you to find a system that you feel comfortable with. Learning and applying certain scientific guidelines has kept me from blurring the edges between these systems but this needn't be the final thoughts on this. Carpe Diem! (or Carpe Jugulum) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Radiant Star
post Jun 14 2005, 03:19 PM
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I think the slants put on them and misinterpretations have done damage to them and I also think it is your own intention and why you want to use a system that is more applicable here.

I believe that magick is to be used for our own development and not the downfall of others to put it very basically.

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SlowLoris
post Jun 27 2005, 07:55 AM
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Many of the Solomonic texts in use today can be traced as far back as the Medieval period, when 'authors' rights' and 'information property' were hardly at the forefront of anybody's mind. The prevailing intellectual climate was 'scholastic', which is to say, it was considered more important to thoroughly examine existing authorites than to generate original ideas. For these reasons - and because the medieval authors obviously had an interest in keeping their own identities secret - many books were mis-attributed, and Solomon was one of the most popular pseudauthors of the time, because of his Biblical reputation for great wisdom and, (the cynic in me says, more to the point) his great wealth. Whether any or all or none of these 'Solomonic' books has an older heritage is impossible ever to find out. (Imagine a world wiped practically wiped out by a major disaster; and then imagine the contents of one set of shelves in one 'bargain basement' of one occult shop scattered at random all over the remaining earth; and then imagine trying to reconstruct the history of (say) the foundation of the O:T:O from the remains. That's what historical reconstructionists are up against.)
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Alafair
post Jun 27 2005, 11:10 PM
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Please would you elaborate on the precise meaning of "Solomon was one of the most popular pseudauthors of the time"

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Alafair
post Jun 28 2005, 03:10 AM
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In my mind the word pseudo is an imitation, a sham, quasi or false.

I apologise for my question as I now understand that you meant a “pseudonym”, and that the model of perfection is to emulate someone who’s intelligence or reason is greater than one’s own.

Solomon is a worthy ideal and it might be possible that during the long dreary ages when men’s thoughts and mental intellect were suppressed by the rigid strictures of the Church and horrors of the Inquisition, the wonderful, grand mind of Solomon and his great wisdom and freedom of thought were suspect and subsequently attached to dark occult practices. This could probably have been due to ignorance and the fear of punishment.

I suppose that in the unschooled mediaeval minds it could have been almost impossible to have understood the Song of Solomon and that it’s true meaning could have been misconstrued, as indeed it still has been to this day.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/Bible/S...of_Solomon.html

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SlowLoris
post Jun 28 2005, 04:15 AM
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Not at all; it is I who should apologise for letting myself get carried away with technical terms. A "pseudauthor" is, indeed, just that - a pretend author, invented as a blind, to conceal the real originator of the text. It goes a little further than a 'pseudonym', as it implies an active effort on the part of the real author to convince his or her readers that the invented author is the real one. (Introductions describing the discovery of the mysterious book are a common preamble to pseudauthored texts.) I mean - and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, the error was all mine - that it was popular for esoteric writers to attribute their books to him, not that the books themselves were popular or widely read. They have always been impenetrable to the unimaginative.

Incidentally, I think you do our ancestors a disservice when you call them "unschooled". They were schooled, some of them brilliantly so, but in a different way to ourselves. They were intelligent men and women who loved language, metaphors, riddles and word-play, and found deep joy in the intricate, the surprising, and cryptic and obscure things brought to light. They also appear to have had memories which would seem quite astonishingly encyclopaedic to the modern mind. But you are quite right that many in the Church frowned on innovations of any sort, and pre-Christian or non-Christian wisdom in particular, which accounts in large measure for the pseudanonymity of the texts.

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Alafair
post Jun 28 2005, 05:41 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif) Possibly the word unschooled was a bit hasty, but I was making the post in haste.

My word ought to have been "ingenuousness" or one of its similies - as I am very well aware that some of the greatest scholars of yesteryear were those from the Middle Ages and your homily concerning their wisdom served as a just reminder to this wisdom. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Alafair: Jun 28 2005, 09:34 PM

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Skeleton
post Nov 10 2005, 02:50 PM
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Hi all. Can anyone send me hebrew words in lesser key circle?? Or a picture where i will read all leters.. thx... please send that to [email protected] bb

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ChaosCrowley
post Nov 10 2005, 08:20 PM
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If you look at the footnotes of the Mathers/Crowley version you can find an english transliteration. It is not too difficult to write out the full hebrew from there.
(Trust me I have done it and my hebrew skills are quite terrible)

You will learn much more about the system doing this than simply having them e-mailed to you.

The lettering of the circle is symbolic of the hierarchy of the entire system and demonstrates how the 72 spirits are divided into seperate Orders and the Sephiroth associated with them.

Give it a try.

This post has been edited by chaoscrowley37: Nov 10 2005, 09:03 PM


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Sorcerer
post Nov 17 2005, 04:12 PM
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skeleton the words in hebrew are the 72 names of god rember to write right to left in hebrew


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ChaosCrowley
post Nov 17 2005, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE(Sorcerer @ Nov 17 2005, 05:12 PM)
skeleton the words in hebrew are the 72 names of god rember to write right to left in hebrew

To be blunt this is completely,utterly, and totally WRONG.

Take the time to read the lettering of the circle and compare the two and you will see.
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Sorry for being a prick.


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Athena
post Nov 18 2005, 01:22 AM
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QUOTE(corbypete @ Jun 14 2005, 09:50 AM)
Why does Solomon get referenced in so many evil texts, is it because he had knowledge of all things good AND evil?
His powers were given to him by god, and then he was destroyed because of them, so how valid now are his spells, talismans, working etc. are they the TRUTH and so cannot be altered by God, or has he 'blacklisted' them making them useless?


Because he did the work and did it well. Also, being a king helps. Well OK it is actually up for debate on whether those grims are actually by Solomon himself, but that is another topic.
I had no idea God gave powers, so I'm not sure on that one.
His grimoires work. So due to this they are valid. Truth? There is no truth, only biases of what people think is THE truth.
What does God matter in this? The seals and evocations work, whether they can be altered or not by a God is irrelevant really. I don't see how something is useless because someone is blacklisted. Many people are blacklisted to have amazing contributions.

Athena


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