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 In A Quandry Here., definitely in need of some wisdom.
Agata
post Nov 21 2011, 03:03 PM
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My daughter who admittedly is a new driver had her first accident. My husband and I ran over there etc.

The thing is I immediately thought in my head -- magick! I said nothing though thinking I was imagining things. Later my husband said to me that he thought there was just something very strange about this particular accident, just very funny. Like magick I asked? He thought a bit and said yes; I'm positive. wow!

But who, how, why? Was it a hex or just the evil eye not done intentionally. She is in a school that seems more like a home for wayward girls to me. The next town over is a bad area and my daughter shows up with a cute tiny sports car which she worked hard to buy herself but maybe someone there thinks mommy and daddy.... You get the idea.

My kid came inches from being killed so I'm not taking this lightly. The question here is if I am wrong and send spirits out that cannot complete their mission that presents a problem. I was thinking of something from the NAP for not know where your attacker is but changing the words but I just don't know how to handle this.
Can someone tell me how to get around this??? Wisdom please.

Peace

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Vagrant Dreamer
post Nov 21 2011, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE(Agata @ Nov 21 2011, 04:03 PM) *

My daughter who admittedly is a new driver had her first accident. My husband and I ran over there etc.

The thing is I immediately thought in my head -- magick! I said nothing though thinking I was imagining things. Later my husband said to me that he thought there was just something very strange about this particular accident, just very funny. Like magick I asked? He thought a bit and said yes; I'm positive. wow!

But who, how, why? Was it a hex or just the evil eye not done intentionally. She is in a school that seems more like a home for wayward girls to me. The next town over is a bad area and my daughter shows up with a cute tiny sports car which she worked hard to buy herself but maybe someone there thinks mommy and daddy.... You get the idea.

My kid came inches from being killed so I'm not taking this lightly. The question here is if I am wrong and send spirits out that cannot complete their mission that presents a problem. I was thinking of something from the NAP for not know where your attacker is but changing the words but I just don't know how to handle this.
Can someone tell me how to get around this??? Wisdom please.

Peace


You might look at something like a protection spell if you aren't sure who the attacker is - assuming there is someone intentionally targeting your daughter. Does your daughter practice? Does she have friends that do as well, and might she have made any enemies in this vein? Teenagers especially generally do not blink twice about hexing somebody, and they've got little enough experience to really want to do harm - adults tend to be a little more level headed and if they were one of those teens in the past, well, we tend to grow up and realize that magical violence is still violence.

If you're concerned for your daughter, talk to her about protective options she might help with. If she's been begging for a tattoo, you might come up with a sigil for protection that you can create together. As your daughter, this could be a really empowering process for both of you.

As for identifying unknown attackers, if your daughter is the target then I would still set up something around her personally - something in iron, like a sword pendant, or a stone of retribution like onyx. For work specifically fore direct retribution, you might do something with saturn. You'd need an image or better bodypart from your daughter - nails, hair, etc. - possibly folded into a packet with a seal of saturn, protection oriented stone, plant, etc.

For something she can have with her, though, I'd put together the amulet - a little sword and shield made of iron, with the seal of saturn or the rune Suwelo engraved on it. If you've got the materials and tools on hand to cast it yourself all the better, otherwise if she's aware of and working with you you can mix a little blood into some enamel and paint the amulet to actually create and bind it specifically to her. The symbolism is fairly obvious I think - be sure to paint the back-side of the shield, and not to paint the sword blade if you can find something this specific.

It's not as lovely, but a medicine bag can be as good, same concept as the packet.

The wording is the easy part, really, the symbolism needs to be geared towards unknown attackers, blind combat, etc. If you're into Tarot magic, Justice, the Hanged Man, and the high Priestess are all good cards; the Tower as well if the idea is destructive retribution. With Tarot magic I prefer to use the minor arcana as well to tell the story from the beginning, and 'write my own ending' as it were, so you might start by depicting your daughter under attack from unknown forces and those attacks being repelled and delivering destruction upon her assailants. This can be done in five cards, so focused enough to not have the whole deck on the altar.

Hopefully that gives you a few ideas that are familiar enough for you to work with. I do think you should definitely involve your daughter, the magic we do for ourselves is much more effective than the magic done for us by someone else.

peace


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Agata
post Nov 21 2011, 08:48 PM
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You might look at something like a protection spell if you aren't sure who the attacker is - assuming there is someone intentionally targeting your daughter. Does your daughter practice? Does she have friends that do as well, and might she have made any enemies in this vein? Teenagers especially generally do not blink twice about hexing somebody, and they've got little enough experience to really want to do harm - adults tend to be a little more level headed and if they were one of those teens in the past, well, we tend to grow up and realize that magical violence is still violence.
She does practice but I do everything I can to keep her protected and insist she not hex/curse everyone she meets. She does the LBRP (not exactly as I would like it) and the kabalistic cross and gets that she needs to be in a circle) Ask for things you want I tell her - She has incredible natural talent. There is only one friend who says she was in wicca at one time but anyone their is a possibility.

If you're concerned for your daughter, talk to her about protective options she might help with.
I have a large tigers eye in her car but it's not visible like hanging from the mirror. I can't say it didn't help because she walked away without a scratch.

If she's been begging for a tattoo, you might come up with a sigil for protection that you can create together.
I don't think I feel comfortable with the tatoo. It feels like a brand and becoming property of a spirit.
As your daughter, this could be a really empowering process for both of you.
As for identifying unknown attackers, if your daughter is the target then I would still set up something around her personally - something in iron, like a sword pendant, or a stone of retribution like onyx.
I have an onyx ring she could wear until she gets her own.
For work specifically fore direct retribution, you might do something with saturn. You'd need an image or better bodypart from your daughter - nails, hair, etc. - possibly folded into a packet with a seal of saturn, protection oriented stone, plant, etc.
I am interested here big time. If I could do something where it would be understood there would be retribution to the person responsible but if there is no such person the task would change to simply protect her. I am concerned with a spirit that cannot complete his task and then starts hanging around trying to help in his own way. At the same time we could find out who the person was that way.

For something she can have with her, though, I'd put together the amulet - a little sword and shield made of iron, with the seal of saturn or the rune Suwelo engraved on it. If you've got the materials and tools on hand to cast it yourself all the better, otherwise if she's aware of and working with you you can mix a little blood into some enamel and paint the amulet to actually create and bind it specifically to her. The symbolism is fairly obvious I think - be sure to paint the back-side of the shield, and not to paint the sword blade if you can find something this specific.
ok Is it the iron or the weapon that is needed? Or both? I have googled but no trinket like this. I did find a Seal of Saturn for little money but I could make one of parchment paper also and place these along with her hair. I could put a little blood on the parchment as well and then wrap these in some red flannel.
It's not as lovely, but a medicine bag can be as good, same concept as the packet.

The wording is the easy part, really, the symbolism needs to be geared towards unknown attackers, blind combat, etc. If you're into Tarot magic, Justice, the Hanged Man, and the high Priestess are all good cards; the Tower as well if the idea is destructive retribution. With Tarot magic I prefer to use the minor arcana as well to tell the story from the beginning, and 'write my own ending' as it were, so you might start by depicting your daughter under attack from unknown forces and those attacks being repelled and delivering destruction upon her assailants. This can be done in five cards, so focused enough to not have the whole deck on the altar.
I've had a lot of success with tarot spells but I've never thought of telling a story like that with my own ending. I like it! I like it alot!!

Hopefully that gives you a few ideas that are familiar enough for you to work with. I do think you should definitely involve your daughter, the magic we do for ourselves is much more effective than the magic done for us by someone else.
Thanks very much and no problem she is only too willing. She is from a long line of witches; she's just not ready to be let loose on her own. ha ha.
peace


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Agata
post Nov 21 2011, 08:59 PM
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Is that the 1st seal of Saturn in the Key?

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Vagrant Dreamer
post Nov 21 2011, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE(Agata @ Nov 21 2011, 09:59 PM) *

Is that the 1st seal of Saturn in the Key?


I would work with the kamea seal personally, unless you'd like to pursue a more complete working for the greater key seals. I know, I know, grimoires and dogma and such... but really, the seals, names, angels, etc., aren't useful if you don't indoctrinate yourself into those systems. The kamea seal is simpler, and indoctrination is no more complex than recognizing the nature of the square itself and what makes it a 'magic' square - not the math, but what the math represents.

The squares represent linear forces - numbers 1 through 9, arranged into a 3x3 grid - which by way of transmutation - the rearrangement into the magic square - are 'perfected', or magically speaking, made manifest. If you haven't already, do the magic square problem a couple of times as a meditation, and then look at the points of the seal in relationship to the numbers and their place on the square. This process of recognition makes the symbols useful when the connection is made. After that, crafting intentions according to symbolism that you're already invested in, even if no one has ever authored the same symbol before, makes that talisman vastly superior to anything you pull out of the greater key without actually doing the greater key work.

From before...

The iron is to work with mars, a little more direct than saturn. Blending the martian expression with the saturnian intention (material + seal of saturn) gives us an expression of magical intention that is more direct.

(west coast jewlry makes a pendent out of stainless steel, http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-2-Piece-Sh...g/dp/B002KFAZ8U this one doesn't attract a great deal of attention and can easily be marked on the side facing her when worn - however, it shouldn't be out for display in any case.

Tattoos don't tie anyone to a spirit unless there was an intention to do so. Protective tattoos are an ancient tradition and come in many forms. And, sigils are effectively sanctified by the act of getting them done, bound in blood and paid for in pain the old fashioned way. You'd want to look at something very long term in terms of intention. In any case, if as a parent you aren't okay with that approach - and frankly, she'd have to be on board with it too - then it was just an option.

Tarot spells can be fabulously effective if they're used correctly. My method is to lay out the story, like I said, and to construct the ritual according to the story telling. Each card gets a candle and a ritual action. There's an internal component, 'living out' the story internally, as it were, everyone has their own way of doing this in their work, and at the apex of that part of the story internally I light the candle for that card, then go on to the next, round the circle clockwise or widdershins, depending on the work. When I get to the last card, and the last candle is lit, I close with the candles still lit, put them out afterwards, and do my post ritual meditation on each point again before putting it all away. Visual elements make it a little easier for me personally to represent what I want to happen - so you can arranged the cards in an arc for something intended to happen and then end, or in a circular fashion for something ongoing, the end of the 'story' leads to the beginning again. That's just my own way.

Dealing with spirits here, you're first task would be to call on a spirit that can tell you if she's a target or not, and then deal with a spirit to actually do something about it. Protection is practical, I would not involve a spirit directly in this without confirmation in the first place.

peace


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☞Tomber☜
post Nov 22 2011, 06:48 PM
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I have a large tigers eye in her car but it's not visible like hanging from the mirror. I can't say it didn't help because she walked away without a scratch.
Those had no affect on the outcome

I don't think I feel comfortable with the tatoo. It feels like a brand and becoming property of a spirit.
I could tattoo "property of the U.S" or "Property of Jesus" or "______" fill in the blank, like Vagrant said intention is clearly the issue.


I am interested here big time. If I could do something where it would be understood there would be retribution to the person responsible but if there is no such person the task would change to simply protect her. I am concerned with a spirit that cannot complete his task and then starts hanging around trying to help in his own way. At the same time we could find out who the person was that way.
Why do you even think there is some spirit involved?

ok Is it the iron or the weapon that is needed? Or both? I have googled but no trinket like this. I did find a Seal of Saturn for little money but I could make one of parchment paper also and place these along with her hair. I could put a little blood on the parchment as well and then wrap these in some red flannel.
Make it yourself, and use intention. Blood is complicated but I don't reccommend that unless you are nearly sure of what you're doing, which it does not appear like you are, because of the questions you ask.

I've had a lot of success with tarot spells but I've never thought of telling a story like that with my own ending. I like it! I like it alot!!
Good luck.

Thanks very much and no problem she is only too willing. She is from a long line of witches; she's just not ready to be let loose on her own. ha ha.
peace


I don't like it when people post ridiculous stories about about things which have never happened (I won't name names, these people pop up here and there) but even worse is someone who is somewhat on the right trail but instead of staying on a real path they veer off into stuff like this. If you were a "real" witch then the first thing you would have done is thrown up a horary question or natal chart of the event and known right away the inside story of what was going on. You could have communicated with real entities about what to do next. You would not be relying on stones and gems which have little meaning aside from symbolism to the un-initiated. And I don't mean a formal initiation even.

Two and a half thousand years ago or so we read about magicians turning staffs into snakes and being foiled because they were not able to the sand into gnats. You were foiled because you make use of basic astrology, appearantly don't have access to the astral plane, and have no clear cut communication with spirits who could help you.

This isn't a rant against you, it is my rant against all the people who have no genuine intention of furthering themselves in the practice of magic. I know there are valid options you could have turned to if you were a real practice of magic, because I have spent several years seriously studying/practicing them. I'm not saying I'm an adept, I'm actually a huge novice. But at least I am making real progress through very hard and serious effort, which you are not. If you are a witch, then I challenge you to re-evaluate your strategy. I am also surprised vagrant took you seriously because I respect his opinion.

Probably a little too late for this but I hope you're not too insulted at me.


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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Agata
post Nov 23 2011, 10:33 PM
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Insulted? Do ya think? Really?? Well this is not a ridiculous story that never happened and unlike you I donít have several years of study; Iím still new, learning, and struggling, and reading everything I can get my hands on.

You know what I can see youíre not an adept; if you were you would have given me the benefit of the doubt. I came here for help and by the way it sounds exactly like a rant on me. You have no idea of what my intentions are magickly or spiritually. You donít know the first thing about me. Spend the next several years maybe working on your people skills.


Peace

QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Nov 21 2011, 11:04 PM) *

I would work with the kamea seal personally, unless you'd like to pursue a more complete working for the greater key seals. I know, I know, grimoires and dogma and such... but really, the seals, names, angels, etc., aren't useful if you don't indoctrinate yourself into those systems. The kamea seal is simpler, and indoctrination is no more complex than recognizing the nature of the square itself and what makes it a 'magic' square - not the math, but what the math represents.

The squares represent linear forces - numbers 1 through 9, arranged into a 3x3 grid - which by way of transmutation - the rearrangement into the magic square - are 'perfected', or magically speaking, made manifest. If you haven't already, do the magic square problem a couple of times as a meditation, and then look at the points of the seal in relationship to the numbers and their place on the square. This process of recognition makes the symbols useful when the connection is made. After that, crafting intentions according to symbolism that you're already invested in, even if no one has ever authored the same symbol before, makes that talisman vastly superior to anything you pull out of the greater key without actually doing the greater key work.

From before...

The iron is to work with mars, a little more direct than saturn. Blending the martian expression with the saturnian intention (material + seal of saturn) gives us an expression of magical intention that is more direct.

(west coast jewlry makes a pendent out of stainless steel, http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-2-Piece-Sh...g/dp/B002KFAZ8U this one doesn't attract a great deal of attention and can easily be marked on the side facing her when worn - however, it shouldn't be out for display in any case.

Tattoos don't tie anyone to a spirit unless there was an intention to do so. Protective tattoos are an ancient tradition and come in many forms. And, sigils are effectively sanctified by the act of getting them done, bound in blood and paid for in pain the old fashioned way. You'd want to look at something very long term in terms of intention. In any case, if as a parent you aren't okay with that approach - and frankly, she'd have to be on board with it too - then it was just an option.

Tarot spells can be fabulously effective if they're used correctly. My method is to lay out the story, like I said, and to construct the ritual according to the story telling. Each card gets a candle and a ritual action. There's an internal component, 'living out' the story internally, as it were, everyone has their own way of doing this in their work, and at the apex of that part of the story internally I light the candle for that card, then go on to the next, round the circle clockwise or widdershins, depending on the work. When I get to the last card, and the last candle is lit, I close with the candles still lit, put them out afterwards, and do my post ritual meditation on each point again before putting it all away. Visual elements make it a little easier for me personally to represent what I want to happen - so you can arranged the cards in an arc for something intended to happen and then end, or in a circular fashion for something ongoing, the end of the 'story' leads to the beginning again. That's just my own way.

Dealing with spirits here, you're first task would be to call on a spirit that can tell you if she's a target or not, and then deal with a spirit to actually do something about it. Protection is practical, I would not involve a spirit directly in this without confirmation in the first place.

peace



[color=#330099]Thanks very much for all your help. I will do everything you suggested.
Peace

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Vagrant Dreamer
post Nov 24 2011, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE(☞Tomber☜ @ Nov 22 2011, 07:48 PM) *

I don't like it when people post ridiculous stories about about things which have never happened (I won't name names, these people pop up here and there) but even worse is someone who is somewhat on the right trail but instead of staying on a real path they veer off into stuff like this. If you were a "real" witch then the first thing you would have done is thrown up a horary question or natal chart of the event and known right away the inside story of what was going on. You could have communicated with real entities about what to do next. You would not be relying on stones and gems which have little meaning aside from symbolism to the un-initiated. And I don't mean a formal initiation even.

Two and a half thousand years ago or so we read about magicians turning staffs into snakes and being foiled because they were not able to the sand into gnats. You were foiled because you make use of basic astrology, appearantly don't have access to the astral plane, and have no clear cut communication with spirits who could help you.

This isn't a rant against you, it is my rant against all the people who have no genuine intention of furthering themselves in the practice of magic. I know there are valid options you could have turned to if you were a real practice of magic, because I have spent several years seriously studying/practicing them. I'm not saying I'm an adept, I'm actually a huge novice. But at least I am making real progress through very hard and serious effort, which you are not. If you are a witch, then I challenge you to re-evaluate your strategy. I am also surprised vagrant took you seriously because I respect his opinion.

Probably a little too late for this but I hope you're not too insulted at me.


Think back to where you very first started, Tomber.

Everyone I have known who was just getting into magic, just dabbling here and there, called themselves a witch. I called myself a witch by the time I was thirteen. It isn't as scary a word as it use to be, and no longer carries the weight that it did.

I've done magic with sticks, stones, bones, bits of metal, paper, cloth, string and yarn. I've done it with none of those things, with my eyes, my hands, by dancing, singing, and gazing fixedly. I've done it without moving a muscle. There is no end to the ways it can be done, it's about finding the way beyond the ways. But until this past year, I had never learned horary astrology. I never needed it, and started learning it as a curiosity. I've been at this long enough I don't remember precisely how many years. The length of my rationally thinking life.

And I've been attacked magically before - only a few times in all this time, having known a lot of reasonably competent practitioners. Never anything serious, but although I don't believe the world is a proverbial battleground where every other person is slinging spells at the guy next to him, it does happen and often happens among young people. All of my attacks occurred between 18 and 22.

My point is, be unyielding in your own practice, refine, refine, refine, and make whatever adjustments you need to along the way - but with others, this is not our task. These questions are relatively straight forward, and the story - which was just the suggestion that there might be magic involved - is feasible and common enough, as are the questions themselves. Taking the time to answer these questions draws our attention to things we might take for granted and gives us the chance to re-evaluate as we go, consider different perspectives and, sometimes, reminds us to keep ourselves grounded.

Keep this in mind. There will be someone opening up a portal to gehenna to let loose their demonic uncle larry soon enough. In fact, seems we overdue...

peace


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Darkmage
post Nov 24 2011, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE
Keep this in mind. There will be someone opening up a portal to gehenna to let loose their demonic uncle larry soon enough. In fact, seems we overdue...


Don't tempt the Fates, friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And well said.

@Tomber: she seems honest. This could be a magical attack aimed at her daughter, or it could be plain old bad luck. Who knows? While I understand what you're saying, and largely agree with you, I think you were a bit overly harsh tbh. Never underestimate the effect a good protection spell has on peace of mind--and sometimes that alone is worth something. Also, never underestimate a parent's love for their child. While I'll never fully understand it as I can't have kids (THANK GOD), most parents will move heaven, hell, and earth if they feel their kids are threatened. This is instinct and I'm seeing it with Agata here. Wanting to protect her daughter is natural and a good thing.

@Agata: this whole situation bl0z to be certain. Vagrant has pretty much covered what I would, although I'd do a good banishing in your house and around your daughter's car in addition to protective spells--just in case. If this turns out to be garden-variety bad luck, a good banishing and then a protection spell helps clean that crap out. I like to walk around the house with a brazier of frankincense and smudge the house. Be careful, though, esp. if you're asthmatic--a little gum resin on charcoal goes a *very* long way. Good luck!


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We rise and fall
As our ashes turn to dust,
We shine like stars...
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☞Tomber☜
post Nov 24 2011, 07:58 PM
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@Agata: Prove me wrong by succeeding.

@Vagrant: I know and agree mostly.

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Nov 24 2011, 07:58 PM


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QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Jan 30 2013, 02:19 AM) *
Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen.

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Agata
post Nov 25 2011, 01:13 AM
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@Vagrant Dreamer/Darkmage
A little time has passed now and I find I actually do know where this is coming from. Itís spiritual but canít be sent back from wence it came. Iím not going into a long story about it but retribution here would be pointless as well--but I believe I can use that Saturn square to bind.

I do secure the house on a regular basis but I never did anything to protect her car so I certainly will. Still I agree that if I have faith that a piece of chewing gum will bring me a bag of gold, I absolutely believe it will.

Yes, I would move a mountain for her. I believe she chose to enter this lifetime through me and it is a huge responsibility. Epic!

Just for the record I never described myself as a witch; I was referring to the women in her fatherís line. I am studying magick, yoga, and meditation.

Finally thank you both for your support.

@Tomber
Itís just not that important to me to prove anything at all to you. I am striving to lose my egoóyouíve heard of Maya, The illusion and such. You might want to look into that for yourselfóJust a friendly suggestion.

Peace

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VitalWinds
post Nov 25 2011, 04:37 AM
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This spell must be for you. I had a dream that I was talking to someone who felt that something had been done to them, and that I sent them this spell. Seems like you're the one. It's to rid your enemies of violent anger, to be cast by one who takes the moral high road. Your daughter is safe, and karma will take care of the repercussions. No need to inflict negative karma on yourself.

Enemies of Mars beware,
For I have felt thy ire on a waning moon.
By the power of Venus,
What once flowed through me will now not flow through you.

Do whatever rituals suit you, this was all that I dreamed for you.


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Agata
post Nov 25 2011, 06:38 AM
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VitalWinds,

Che Bellissima! Much Thanks. I love when this happens.



Peace

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