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 Religious Discrimination
Religious Discrimination
Have you ever been discriminated for your beliefs?
yea, please tell us how and where [ 28 ] ** [73.68%]
nay [ 5 ] ** [13.16%]
not sure, please explain your situation [ 5 ] ** [13.16%]
Do you hold any prejudice against any particular religious group?
yea, please say explain [ 20 ] ** [52.63%]
nay [ 12 ] ** [31.58%]
not sure, please share an explaination [ 6 ] ** [15.79%]
Total Votes: 76
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Acid09
post Jan 8 2007, 06:26 PM
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Please keep this respectful. Any slurs or attacks against other members because of their beliefs will be deleted.

I'm curious to see what members have to say. In my life time I've been riddiculed by my family, who are Catholic both on my mom and dad's side. I've been picked on in grade school too, thats not surprising growing up in a small town with small minded people. But I've never really enountered discrimination in a work environment or otherwise had my rights overtly broken. In college, well mine at least, people either don't really care or are openly curious. I guess there have been a few religious nuts I've banged heads with, but nothing that really impeded my rights.

Now I do hold a certain level of resentment for religious fanatics of any sort, be they Evangelicals, Jehova's Witnesses, KKK, Pagan knights or cults that I percieve as dangerous. My main resentment towards Christianity in general stems from the idea of conversion. I do not think it is right for any religion to pressure or coerce any other denomination to convert. In prision I did not openly discuss my belief either. But in that kind of environment thats a good choice regardless of one's beliefs. I'm also bitter from just the general "holier than thou" attitude I've encountered in grade school and day to day life. All these aspects have formed a kind of prejudice in me against Christians. Not because all Christians are closeminded fanatics, but because a few roten apples spoiled my pie, so to speak.

For me, this manifests as a messure of mis-trust and disdain. I don't often talk about my beliefs with strangers because I don't want to be oustrasized in my community. And yet a portion of me finds pleasure in pissing off fundies. I've been known to challenge the various Mormons or whoever who periodically come to my front door and try to tell me I'm going to hell and need to accept Christ into my heart, under their banner no doubt.

Of course I do try to be respectful, usually, in these "debates" that get stired up. And I always respect people's beliefs in day to day life.

So where have you, if ever, experienced prejudice or discrimination because of your beliefs?

Do you hold any prejudice against a particular religion?


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DarK
post Jan 8 2007, 06:50 PM
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I've been incessantly daunted for my beliefs, but for the most part I've kept to myself.

I don't have anything against any other religions, unless they have something against me.

Story:

A week ago I was at a guest's house for their christian christmas, and their father is a devout catholic, so they were saying prayers and I realized the energy was pernicious to me as I am one with the Darkness which prayers deliberately try to snuff. Anyhow, I did not pray as it would not be in accord with me or my "brethren", so I digressed, fine, then they're drinking to christ the saviour and I also did not want to even slurp, as I had promised my Mother (Spiritual, true), and brothers and sisters, that I would not drink from the chalice, which would be disrespectful to all of us, and even maybe dangerous, as the holy drink with the words of prayer can and do pose as threats to those against them. So when I denied the request one of the wretches at the house (The father's brother), got things heated up when he noticed that I hadn't said grace nor drank from the chalice, so we got into a big argument and something just hit me, a bit of spark ignited within my soul which totally induced a state of beasty anger in me and I flipped, I talked a lot of crap about them and christ, and their disaproval ensued, I was out of the house and slept 2 straight nights in a broken down office. I come home, Victor (biological male meat who I live with) tells me: "why did you come home" and starts to prattle about how discusting I am (nothing new), this time I just flipped and tackled him was threatening to eat him alive etc. from anger (those of you who are going to start crap because of what I just said feel free to pm me and be ignored, otherwise, keep it clean).

I was just really angered, all that which had occured in my past to this day has been daunting to me, I could not come out of penumbra and show myself, who I truly am, just for this reason, and when we were to pray and drink from the chalice of my Mother's and family's foes, I just could not succumb to the filth and so I just ignited into flames.

This was pretty much the first time this had occured, because I had recently started becoming one again with my Mother and family, and that oneness caused me dread at the time of prayer and "holyness", it just did not feel good, or right, I cannot really explain, the dire of a feeling was that of facing a pernicious enemy.

Hence, I am disliked by 60% of the people who know me in this city-town. I am also hated by people who do not even know who I am, they somehow sense that my aura is not of theirs and inherently find scorn and hate, or dread, towards me, not so ironic anymore, I am beginning to fathom this.

Anyways, nice post there Acid09, I'll get back to this I was in a bit of haste as I need to go out.


Peace.

This post has been edited by DeathStalker: Jan 8 2007, 06:53 PM

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TiacSway
post Jan 8 2007, 09:58 PM
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Yes to being discriminated against, and no to discriminatating against others.


There have been several times when i've done or said something, and being a christian, had people openly tell me "thats not very christian like". I found it very odd that these people, who had never studied christian dogma, would tell me what the right way to act would be according to my beliefs.

I've also been shunned for being a witch by several people in my church. They never openly tell me they hate me, or anything mean, its just a general feeling i get whenever im around them. It always feels as if they dont want me around, and dont like me being around. Several of them wont talk to me, or if they do, it's never for very long and mostly just ridiculous small talk when they used to confide in me alot with very personal issues.

But other than that, most of my friends are very tolerant of my beliefs and practices.

As for my family.....most of them have no idea what i do or believe, and i really dont care to go through the process of explaining it all to them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dots.gif)


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So mote it be.



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Imperial Arts
post Jan 8 2007, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE(Acid09 @ Jan 8 2007, 04:26 PM) *
So where have you, if ever, experienced prejudice or discrimination because of your beliefs?

Do you hold any prejudice against a particular religion?


I was once fired by an anti-semitic Catholic. His precise words were "We are a Christian business." He had to close shop within the month, and I never filed any official complaint.

Entirely apart from that shenanigan, I have always held a particular contempt for Christianity of any stripe, most especially the "tolerant" forms of that religion.

While most civilized people will agree that a man with a sign yelling threats of damnation at people in public is inexcusable, the sort of Christianity that passively asserts itself into the minds and hearts of billions is the kind that gives me the most agitation.

No matter what variety of Christianity, all boil down to a Final Judgment with the option of either salvation or damnation. Perhaps they believe nobdy is damned, or that there are tremendous allowances to be made, or that damnation exists in a somewhat less-torturous sense, but ultimately the defining point of Christian theology (as opposed to morality) is that Jesus alone holds sole authority over the destiny of your soul. Jesus might like Buddhists, for example, but Buddha alone doesn't make the difference when it comes to avoiding damnation, so no matter how pleasant and tolerant the Christian may be, he or she holds a belief in the spiritual inferiority of any other faith.

To me this is like saying a Nazi or KKK member could be considered OK if he personally has no dislike for Jews, Blacks, etc... I have met many such people. That he would identify with such a movement that espouses the inferiority of those people is enough to warrant my personal discrimination. I do not voluntarily associate with Christians in any social environment, nor do I permit my children to do so, and in this it is not so much for their beliefs as it is for the fact that there is nearly always the Christian supremacy being exerted in some way toward them.

Granted the same could be said of many other religions, Islam for example, but to be frank, in the USA in modern times, Jesus is the big hit in the religion department.

I also find it disturbing that so many occult students fall away from occult study and embrace Christianity when forced to face maturity, or when they have excessive success or failure in magical practice.


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Eabatu
post Jan 8 2007, 11:59 PM
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I had a friend once that was a devout Satanist. I was just a pup in the magickal realms then, but I listened to his advice on magick and used those words to get better at magick. He took off for another state and I was left to teach myself magick--which was OK considering my prefered paradigm was not Satanism, it was using the Necronomicon. The more I used it the more I realized it was a way to reach never before realized heights and goals. Magick wasnt about spells and power anymore--it was about Evolution! But as I was excited by this realization my friend had returned from his year long journey a new man---A GODDAM REBORN CHRISTIAN---- THE WORST KIND!!!!! Boy did he waste no time trying to convert everyone and their mother to "his Lord Jesus Christ!". Everyone naturally ignored him as he was a very vocal Satanist in the past so they looked at him like he was mad. But me being a loyal friend, I supported his new cause if it made him a better person. But in due time the venom was pointed at me and my methods. Then came the inevitable "all magick is evil"--at this point I went off on him reminding him of his limited view point on magick. How the only magick he ever practiced was Satanism. Based on that of course he would view all magick as evil--but in essence he was way off mark! I tried to explain the goals of my system as well as the Qabalistic system as well (as I feel they are very much related). He had made up his mind and wanted to hear nothing of what I had to say. This is when I started to lose respect for my friend. Naturally we hung out less and less. I saw his judgement as foolish and meek more clearly each time I met him. To him if you werent w/ Jesus you were w/ Satan--simple as that garbage. Well at this point I dont hang out w/ the fella at all--havent spoken to him in like 3 years--and dont see myself speaking to him anytime soon--as I dont hate him, he was my first magickal teacher---but I dont respect him anymore. All because of these four letters---WWJD......


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IA ZI DINGIR ENKI KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR EA KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR NUDIMMUD KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR OANNES KANPA!

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Darkmage
post Jan 9 2007, 12:13 AM
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I've got nothing against or for any one religion over another. I've met idiots, zealots, and certifiable nuts from pretty much all sides of the spiritual spectrum.

I've had nasty run-ins with Christian Evangelicals in the South, but to be perfectly honest, it was more the South than it was Christian Evangelicals. Esp. because in my junior high school (I lived there for a few years) a lot of these people had never been out of the COUNTY, let alone the state or country. *headdesk* I was SO happy to get out of there...

At ASU my favourite toy was a preacher called Brother Jed. I actually met a lot of my friends during his annual dog-and-pony show. One year we managed to scare the hell out of him and drown him out by doing the Monty Python "Witch" skit. My bf at the time grabbed me, winked, and dragged me up to Jed's wife--"We found a witch, may we burn her?"
"I'm not a witch! They dressed me up like this!"
The rest of the group caught on quickly, played along, and I think we cracked the street preacher's little shell. It was a lot of fun. Usually when street preachers invade my space I just call a beat cop over and nail their ass to the wall for harassment. *shrug*

I don't care what religion you are, if you're Hindu, Taoist, Muslim, Christian, etc. Religion, ideally, should be used as a tool for self-empowerment and enlightenment, as well as helping you know what your place in the world is and how to live your life the best you can. And in their best forms, all religions do that. Thing is, once you get human nature involved, everything gets corrupted, and it turns into a tool of enslavement for lack of a better word. If people are going to church or temple to check out the neighbours, gossip, and bitch that the Johnsons down the street have a better house and car, well, then they're not exactly worshipping $deity, are they?


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As the water grinds the stone,
We rise and fall
As our ashes turn to dust,
We shine like stars...
--Covenant, "Bullet"

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Eabatu
post Jan 9 2007, 01:33 AM
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LMAO!!!! That is exactly what the common reality of religion is, a fashion show in a place called a church. No time for true microcosmic Evolution in church----gossip is more fun and juicy! THESE FOLK MAKE ME SICK!!!!! They are why the leaders of this world got us all by the balls! Their ignorance to realities outside of their learned perceptions makes them think anything not familiar is stupid or wrong, we all know that to not be true! (at least I hope we all do!)

This is why I NEVER discuss my spiritual beliefs w/ people I can tell have now openss in their hearts.....only to ones who are trying real hard to see I will discuss this stuff w/. Not many of those in my neck of the woods! (hence why I am online alot!)


--------------------
IA ZI DINGIR ENKI KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR EA KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR NUDIMMUD KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR OANNES KANPA!

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DarK
post Jan 9 2007, 01:47 AM
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QUOTE(Eabatu @ Jan 8 2007, 11:33 PM) *
LMAO!!!! That is exactly what the common reality of religion is, a fashion show in a place called a church. No time for true microcosmic Evolution in church----gossip is more fun and juicy! THESE FOLK MAKE ME SICK!!!!! They are why the leaders of this world got us all by the balls! Their ignorance to realities outside of their learned perceptions makes them think anything not familiar is stupid or wrong, we all know that to not be true! (at least I hope we all do!)

This is why I NEVER discuss my spiritual beliefs w/ people I can tell have now openss in their hearts.....only to ones who are trying real hard to see I will discuss this stuff w/. Not many of those in my neck of the woods! (hence why I am online alot!)


Ignorance is bliss?

"Lets lock ourselves in the closet and play a video game called heaven..."

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Acid09
post Jan 9 2007, 07:14 PM
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When I was court ordered to take out patient drug classes there was only one treatment center in my area that I could really go to. When I finally did start my classes nobody seemed to care about the pentagram necklace I wore. Nobody ever mentioned it or ever indicated any kind of discontent about it.

Then when I started the second level of the program I had a new councelor, I had two prior who did not have a problem with my necklace. This one did. She told me it was against the center's policy to allow people to wear non-Christian icons. She said it was because of two reasons - 1) they could be gang related, or 2) Such non-Christian icons could potentially disrupt the treatment of other clients, supposedly endangering them or myself. I looked her straight in the face and said "Don't think I put myself at some amount of risk just for wearing this in public?" She was contended it was the center's rules, not her. I then proceeded to ask the group I was in if my necklace offended any of them. Nobody really cared. In fact one guy said he thought it was great as long as my religion helped me in my "recovery".

So I took the issue up with a friend of my mother's who's pretty keen on pagan rights. She told me that the treatment center was actually privately owned. And because it was privately owned, it was not headed by any government/public agency, she said they could refuse treatment to anybody for any reason. There was nothing I could do to trump their rules. Now had it been the courts, the DMV or the jail who infringed on my religious rights then I'd have somewhat of a case - there was still the gang factor that I couldn't dispute though.

Another thing that pissed me off was at the end of each group session we had to recite the serenity prayer while in a big ole group hug. That really up set me and drew right from my issues with Christians trying to shove their shit down non-conformist throats. But I really only had two options - jump through their hoops and complete the required matterial. Jail actually sounded better at the time until I realized that in order to get my license back I'd still have to complete my "Jedi training" and learn the ways of the "Christian force" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif) . The end result was I ended up getting booted out for some really dumb shit on the councelors hands. Went to jail again then had to complete my classes anyways.

I also had to participate in some AA meetings. Now there is an organization that claims to not be religiously motivated. Yet if one looks at the social set up of the group - spirituallity is a huge part of the recovery and relapse provention - its always Christian oriented (97% of all American's are of some Christian group) and everybody has to talk about how great God is and how much God has saved their lives and I should learn to accept Christ in my heart too. Now bravo that these people have found a way to live their lives gracefully, but don't tell me how to live my life or put the fear of God in me. It also fraustrated me on how from then on the people in the group seemed to look down on me for not being one of them. Needless to say I only completed my required session and got out of there.

All this, plus that in my original post, has contributed to my bitterness in life in general, not just towards religions, but how I view common everyday people. So in that respect I think I do hold some prejudice against Christians. I almost wish it was out of dumb ignorance. But in situation, its because of my past experiences.

Such as life. Thanks sharing your "war stories" too people.


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Imperial Arts
post Jan 9 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE(Acid09 @ Jan 9 2007, 05:14 PM) *
Such as life. Thanks sharing your "war stories" too people.


If you can ever find a copy of "The Pipe and the Cross" by Harlan W. Draper, you'll hear something of real war story in the classic sense. This guy claims to practice traditional Cherokee shamanism, pipe tobacco and sweat lodge type of stuff. I've known him for years and consider him legitimate, but I met him during the final stages of his ongoing battle with Christian radicals.

He lived in Rossville, TN, population 250, in a rickety old swamp shack stuffed to the brim with a veritable museum of guns, knives, and occult artifacts from the past few thousand years of Native occupation. Aside from one or two semi-sympathetic individuals, I think the whole town wanted his head on a stick. Anyone who has never lived in a place like this can hardly imagine the lack of accountability that the local yokels enjoy and often abuse. I would like to think thgat it is this lack of accountability, not Christianity itself, that motivated the Rossvillians, but Harlan was never thus persuaded.

They tried arson, poison, hired criminals, theft, and a whole array of legal maneuvers designed to keep him from operating the sweat lodge. They deputised his brother, living next door, and kept 24/7 surveillance. The mayor and aldermen conspired in public town meetings and in private. Draper spent years in court, winning a few small victories regarding the sweat lodge, and eventually a full victory over the entire town. With his settlement completed (thanks to the Masons, who had a much better conspiracy going in his favor), he moved away.


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TiacSway
post Jan 10 2007, 12:59 AM
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Rossville, TN?

Is this the same Rossville next to Memphis, TN?

If so, I live no more than 45 minutes from there, and i've never heard of this story....

I'll be sure to check it out, however, and thanks for the Info Imperial Arts.


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I cast my lot with the shadows. May the Gods and Godesses of Night hear my words and welcome me into their embrace.


So mote it be.



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Eabatu
post Jan 10 2007, 01:28 AM
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You guys do bring up a valid point about how CHristians make them not in their fold feel very uncomfortable. I really dont have a specific story, but Im sure we all know this feeling. Like if we are at a function where they say a prayer (which is ALWAYS from the bible or bible related). If you dont participate you are labeled a Satanist or Devil Worshipper or just a flat out weirdo. Also, regarding the worst time of the year which I just survived--Christmas. If you dont celebrate X-mas or get into the "spirit" (spirit= spending $$ on BS that mofo's usually dont deserve, singing lame songs, watching lame movies, wearing lame sweaters, setting up a fukin glam tree, wasting ur time putting up lites that will have to be taken down--etc...) you are labeled a scrooge or whatever. NO, I just hate this holiday and time of the year--when everyone is fake friendly! Had to bring that up--Im sure everyone has an issue w/ Christmas as well.....Hanakkah suks ass too! the whole month of December blows! Laterz......


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IA ZI DINGIR ENKI KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR EA KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR NUDIMMUD KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR OANNES KANPA!

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esoterica
post Jan 10 2007, 08:42 AM
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yes i have been discriminated against - my swords and rit knives were taken by the cops and checked for blood (this was 30-ish years ago and world away from the paradigm i have now - amazing to look back isn't it - of couse they found nothing and returned them but kept the long pipe as there were 'too many unidentifiable resins', it was just burdock)

i was snubbed in school as being 'wednesday' from the addams family - beaten up and principals office for praying aloud in gaelic before a test, not wearing proper skirts (i always wore those lovely divided riding skirts - love to have some of those now!) and having burned matches and pebbles in my pockets

i really have no malice toward the stupid befuddled emotional-fodder-cattle of the masses that don't see beyond their nose - they are what they are brainwashed by their vampire leaders to be (always just short of happiness so the leaders get their bellies filled - and always as far away from mutiny as possible to keep the leaders in power) - if we can chip away at it here and there (and i try my best to do so, in an unobtrusive way) and get them to awaken to the real reality then so much the better

otherwise, i have, like the song says, "save yourself a penny for the ferryman and let them suffer" attitude for the unreachable ones



QUOTE(Eabatu @ Jan 10 2007, 03:28 AM) *
You guys do bring up a valid point about how CHristians make them not in their fold feel very uncomfortable. I really dont have a specific story, but Im sure we all know this feeling. Like if we are at a function where they say a prayer (which is ALWAYS from the bible or bible related). If you dont participate you are labeled a Satanist or Devil Worshipper or just a flat out weirdo. Also, regarding the worst time of the year which I just survived--Christmas. If you dont celebrate X-mas or get into the "spirit" (spirit= spending $$ on BS that mofo's usually dont deserve, singing lame songs, watching lame movies, wearing lame sweaters, setting up a fukin glam tree, wasting ur time putting up lites that will have to be taken down--etc...) you are labeled a scrooge or whatever. NO, I just hate this holiday and time of the year--when everyone is fake friendly! Had to bring that up--Im sure everyone has an issue w/ Christmas as well.....Hanakkah suks ass too! the whole month of December blows! Laterz......


jeepers! just make it your own - the solstice (what the christians are gibbering about rising again) is in december, and the evergreen tree is the promise of reincarnation and the presents are the morel mushrooms that grow under it, the glam balls are the wish-spells the people hang on the tree for the gods to see and deliver (hang a model car and see what happens), the feast is the feast and the singing and dancing (if your relatives dance!) is the remnant of the old fertility rites

every bit of the old ways have been usurped by the 'christian' church (who wouldn't know the christ if he walked through their door) - the catholics are possibly the worst - praying to diana - oops mother mary - and stealing my sun symbols for their crackers and wine - wearing the hat of dagon and abusing the incense - and covering it all in anunaki gold to await the return of their master so they can deliver it

i've been told to never come back to a local baptist church (frends took me for a recital by one of their kids) for doing the five point star at the end of the lord's prayer (which is what it is if these idiots would do the research) - thine (point up), kingdom, power, glory. for ever, and ever - he thought it was masonry (maybe it is, i'm not allowed to be a mason cause i'm a woman!)- truly the blind leading the blind

enough - they are just brainwashed

e.


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Darkmage
post Jan 10 2007, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE(esoterica @ Jan 10 2007, 07:42 AM) *
every bit of the old ways have been usurped by the 'christian' church (who wouldn't know the christ if he walked through their door) - the catholics are possibly the worst - praying to diana - oops mother mary - and stealing my sun symbols for their crackers and wine - wearing the hat of dagon and abusing the incense - and covering it all in anunaki gold to await the return of their master so they can deliver it.


Hehe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This reminds me of an old editorial cartoon I saw once. Christ was knocking at the door of a church, and a guy in a suit was opening the door for him. He told Christ, "Wait, you want to help the poor, feed the hungry, and take care of the needy? We don't have room for liberals in the Christian Coalition!" or something along those lines.

It's a shame I can't remember who drew it or what paper it was in, because it was really funny and I think the lot of you would enjoy it.


--------------------
As the water grinds the stone,
We rise and fall
As our ashes turn to dust,
We shine like stars...
--Covenant, "Bullet"

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A_Smoking_Fox
post Jan 10 2007, 12:03 PM
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I don't know if i am discriminating against christians. Usually i am verry relaxed about what people believe in and what they do.
But christian friends i have tend to force their religion on you. And that while they are not really that christian at all.
They don't go to church except on perhaps christmas or on funerals.

I am with a scouts group that does weekly meetings with children.
When our group does a yearly mass, they expect everyone to be their. And when they pray before dinner, they expect everyone to pray along.
I made it clear that i will never set foot in a church, and i certainly will not pray. But some don't seem to understand, especially the most liberal among them, they seem to think it is fine to go along and do it for the "show" of it all. They think its stupid that i make such a big point of it. Just go to the church they say, just do the prayers.
This is the general stance among the members of our group.

I find it even more dificult when children say to me they aren't christian, since that is a ever growing trend these days i must gladly say.
Because, i cannot answer these children truthfully i feel. It would get me in a lot of trouble if i told them to just not come to our mass. I am not going, why should i oblige them to come. I just say i cannot answer that question, and point them to another leader in the group. Hopefully their parents have some common sence and don't make them go.
I probably should have just that kid to stay home, that i am not a christian either, and i wouldn't go into a church even if it meant my death. But it would probably get me a lot of trouble in the group if i said that.

Heh, its stupid that i should adjust to them. And i wont, i will never say a christian prayer, and i will never set foot in any church.
Its stupid of them to ask that of me, i even read the new testament about 3 or 4 times, they probably never fully read it.


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Eabatu
post Jan 10 2007, 03:32 PM
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I remember one time when Jehovas Witness showed up at the door to my house. I proceeded to have a long religious conversation w/ them, my point always coming from my experience and mind--theirs always being pulled out of the book, always prefaced w/ "if u would just look at page ____ u would see plainly how....." I rather enjoyed seeing the pure ignorance at work in front of me--it was funny! Then at the end it turns out, they applauded me, they said I was the only person in this neighborhood that actually knew anything about the bible and could talk about it. Being I wasnt CHristian and I feel my biblical knowledge is base at best---that statement showed me how little most people really know about their own religion. Now that is pitiful in my eyes!


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IA ZI DINGIR EA KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR NUDIMMUD KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR OANNES KANPA!

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esoterica
post Jan 10 2007, 04:34 PM
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back in my christian paradigm i tried evoking 'the christ' into a dark crystal, - got something named isca(h) - he turned out to be pretty cool and had some deep things to impart - a lot on the lines of what the virgin mary supposedly says in her appearances - it was neat

so next time the xtians start pestering you, you can tell them that what the virgin is saying is directed at the church, not the rest of the world! - for the life of me i just don't think they see it that way


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esoterica
post Jan 10 2007, 04:54 PM
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great posts, y'all

WWJD......

wither a fig tree cause it had no figs and it pissed him off

transmutate water into wine so the party could keep on rockin (at the request of his mother no less!)

raise the dead, heal the sick, etc, etc, etc...

walks like a mage, quacks like a mage, must be a mage!

the rest of his story is usurped from the paganos methinks, like walking on water, loaves and fishes, etc

how much is real we can't say these days cause of the church's assimilation of just about everything

hmmm...if you say damn, does that make you a christian? i'll never say damn again!


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DarK
post Jan 10 2007, 08:34 PM
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I just, about an hour ago, lost the very person I was to live with, to work with, the only person that ever mattered to me. Why did this happen? Becuase his entire damn town prayed for him, that's why, 400+ prayers. Fundamentalist parents just couldn't handle him being who he wanted to be.

Talk about religious discrimination.

ps. Acid check your pm on this.

This post has been edited by DeathStalker: Jan 10 2007, 08:34 PM

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Goibniu
post Jan 15 2007, 04:28 AM
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I've never had any overt religious discrimination against me, but this is partially because I am cautious and in the broom closet for the most part. I only come out to people who I've evaluated and figured that the risk was small that they would react badly. At the worksplace I've never mentioned my religion although they have an idea that my spiritual beliefs probably aren't mainstream Christian. One woman I worked with for years and am good friends with asked me point blank what I believed. Years ago she asked me the same thing. She is heavily Christian and at the time I was a deist, but not Christian. She was fine about it when I explained my beliefs of the time. It wasn't an uncalled for question because I was doing energy work treatment on her. I can understand how she wanted to make sure that what I was doing wasn't demonically based. My beliefs have changed and evolved since then and she asked me again recently. I am still treating her so I could understand her questioning me. But to me, energy work is a technique, not really a religious practice. Apparently she had forgotten asking me a long time ago. But by this time I was polytheistic and this time I fudged the truth, saying that I was still a deist. I suppose I still am in a sense, but with more than one deity. I didn't feel too good about it, but I didn't feel that she could handle the whole truth. And I've had enough fundies pushing their religion on me at work that I have taken the position that it isn't anyone else's business at work what I believe. I also know that if I told her, the information would get out to others in the workplace. I suppose I did wrong, placing practical matters above ideals. But weighing her right to know and my right not to tell her I came down on the side of discretion. British Traditionals tend tobe secretive in any case. I'd probably do it again. Dorren Valiente used to say that wicca doesn't pay for broken windows and the principle still holds. To me it was the lesser of two evils.


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Acid09
post Jan 15 2007, 04:06 PM
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Any more when I think about occultist who have to practice their beliefs in secrecy I think about an analogy between them and crack heads smoking crack in some dark hidden alley. Of course alternative religions and beliefs are nothing like crack. But the fear of persecution drives many to practice secretly much like addicts use their drugs in secrecy. In reality I'd imagine almost ALL pracitioners of non-mainstream religions, at least in America, have to be careful about who they tell about their beliefs. In this day and age even practicing Islam in America can cause a person problems. While there is religious freedom in this country, its still a Christian country - probably more than 95% of some type. It'd seem in such an "enlightened" day and age society would have learned to let go of their religious hang ups over those who don't follow their brand of faith. Then again I'm biased towards society and tend to dissociate myself from it. Sort of a "them" vs "me" mentallity. My personal prejudices probably blind me to the fact that its really only the few fanatics with political connections or social status in a given environment that can adversly affect people considered "religious outcasts".

Ah oh well.. WWJDD (what would jack daniel do)

This post has been edited by Acid09: Jan 15 2007, 04:10 PM


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Enochian
post Jan 15 2007, 07:22 PM
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Old Jack would take a shot first....lol


Im not discriminated against, but my wife is one of those die hard christians that believe your going to hell if you dont believe.....It makes life very interesting sometimes... we really dont discuss it and we love each other for who we are. But she does not appreciate it you can just tell. I guess i have been dicriminated she did call me a crystal lover once or twice in a argument.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)


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Om Bhur Bhuva Suvah
Tat Savithur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dheemahi
Dhiyo Yonah Prachodayat

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Oryx
post Jan 28 2007, 02:47 PM
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I've had a few nasty run-ins with the xtian faith; the first Is my mother. She keeps a tight grip on where I go and when to keep me from attempting magick. The second was a moderate guy with a gold crucifix and a silver version whom I met at camp last summer. He looked quite like Jim Carrey and was very skilled in fights. I had a crush on him for a while, 'til his girlfriend and I compared notes on his behavior; noting the scary energy coming out of his eyes at times. In our last days together, he "confessed" and told me his profession was killing demons. At the time I had no idea about the occult, and I wished for knowledge from an experienced source. I asked plenty of questions like how to recognize demons (which I now consider utter bullshit) and the info seemed to be strange feeling.
Now that I think about it, the density of the room seemed to change when he brought some teeth out of his bag.
He said that His real name was Matthew Sivertson and was responsible for slaying 20-30 "demons" in the Kamloops area of BC, and showed us the sharpened bottom of the gold crucifix as "proof"
Ironically, This guy unwittingly introduced me to ritual magick. He told me that with a ouija board and a drop of blood I could curse a dwelling forever.
Either this guy was a few tools short of a tool box, or for real and killing our kind.
This guy creeps me out everytime I think about him, thank goodness I didn't tell him my beliefs!

Has anyone else met this guy? I just cannot bear to think what he's doing to our fellows out there.

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Eabatu
post Jan 29 2007, 12:10 AM
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Hes not talking aboout "our kind" (whatever path you have taken), he is talking about REAL demons, w/ time and experience in the world you will learn to recognize them. They are in the guise of man but they are demon never the less. Granted this fellow may be mad, but if not I know what kind he hunts--I have met a few of them in my day as well. Murderers, rapists, child molesters and their ilk--demons all of them. Then you have the real deal sons of bitches that hold some sort of political office--oh ya--there is demonic presence in the lofty terrestrial parts. Learn the path of wisdom and certain things that once seemed repulsive suddenly seem logical and neccessary. But then again--the guy could be a quack or conpulsive liar.......


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IA ZI DINGIR EA KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR NUDIMMUD KANPA!
IA ZI DINGIR OANNES KANPA!

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Sojrn
post Feb 25 2007, 05:18 PM
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I've practiced magick all my life and have had no direct problems with my magickal beliefs.

I have been labeled an Athiest at work, though because I have defended gays and lesbians, contrary to what their bible has to say about them. The label just falls off of the tongues of many Christians when you try to have a intelligent conversation regarding other belief systems. I was at a class at work a while back and we were divided into groups that were instructed to list things you do in your spare time. I listed meditation and one guy actually said to me, "Oh meditation, so you're an Athiest?"
I said, "So anyone who meditates is an Athiest? He just mumbled, "I don't know."

My esoteric beliefs are deeply personal and I have no need to speak of them to others or "wear them on my sleeve." I do know that a driven "big three" believer can make one's life difficult in a job or school setting as I have seen friends deal with, including my wife.
As far as my Catholic family is concerned, when I visit them, I don't mind going to church with them to "keep the peace" because I consciously practice tolerance whenever intolerance from others could rear it's head.

Oh, and I'm not an Athiest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/groan.gif)

This post has been edited by Sojrn: Feb 25 2007, 05:22 PM

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Xenomancer
post Apr 28 2007, 02:07 PM
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I have been descriminated against passively by the local law enforcement. As it turns out, my mother locked me out of the house after spending one night at a friends house (not the reason), and upon returning, I find that around $720 worth of books, herbs, candles, resins, etc. were destroyed. I decided to get the only thing left: My hard drive, with all my esoteric Data.

She called the police for breaking in. They came, about 5-6 squad cars! I thought: "Do these guys have anything better to do!?!" They asked her questions, and me questions. I told them how everything was destroyed, and how I was arbitrarily locked out because she said "only god is worshipped in this house." I brought up the point that I made NO indication who I worshipped, and her enforcement of her view was also arbitrary. They said that it was her house, and if she wanted to kick me out, or destroy my property, she had a right to do so. I was at her mercy, for being over 18 and living with her. FScking bStch. I was told that they will not charge me or arrest me, since I was completely peaceful, did not cause harm, nor assault my mother (albeit I had to push her out of my way to get to my computer and disconnect my drive), and also for not fleeing the scene of a 'potential crime.' But, because it was a domestic dispute, I was told that they would put it on record and if I am ever at that house uninvited again, I will be arrested.

I was completely ignored.

As for those I descriminate against, I openly admit to being prejudgmental against Satanists, especially those who join an organization known as the JoS, or "Joy of Satan." Why I do is for the following reasons:

(NOTE: THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE, AND MINE ALONE. If it does not apply to what others may have experienced, so be it. Leave me be, I am happy with my view. Call me closeminded, call me ignorant, I will say at the end why I say this and why I have a right to judge.)

1) the JoS Is really just a front for the Nazi Party. If you look at their donations page, and look at their POBOX zipcode, Google it. It's Oklahoma, somezipcodenumber, somePOBOXnumber. The same exact number, location, and zipcode come up as the Oklahoma chapter of the Nationalist Socialist party.

2) There is a consistency for the demographic of Satanists. Sociologically, Satanists tend to be teens with rebellious dispositions, and their decisions to become one are generally the same: Goals, empowerment, gain. The real problems are the underlying factors, such as quick gain (contrary to patience being an essential part of magickal prowess and progress), and otherwise similar ideologies which utilize haste, avarice, and overhaul of opposing forces of the cosmos. Balance is usually forgone as a factor of development, and Satanists tend to measure all factors of reality in epistomology and empiricism.

3)They usually hold a Bill O'Rilley stance relative to their defense of what Satanism is about, and the attack of other ideologies. They will be smartassy, and spin other things that may point out shortcomings of satanism into a state of total neutralization in an argument. Example:

Practicioner: "Try using the Sephiroth for progress"
Satanist: "Oh, you mean that guy from FF7? DUDE, HE KICKED @$$!"

The common attitude is, "My path is right, yours is wrong."

4) Nonconformist Hipocrisy. They claim to be "unlike the sheep," yet they readily agree with a collective mentality and display behaviors not unlike that which would be influenced by egregores.

5) The idea of being a "satan" or "Adversary" to things that come across you in life is one, that I believed, to be of inherent disharmony. Being an avid Taoist Scholar, I found the philosophy of satanism to disgust me from that point on.

I speak on this because I was an Ex-Satanist. Some people say that this "oath" or whatever is permanent, but thats what magickal research...my research....Xenomancy, is for. I wanted a way to totally undo, rescind, and negate all forms of binding or oath or association, and I forged my own path of magick. One that dipped into the inherent mathematical properties of realities outside this one. One that ran in congruency with the realities that judge this one; The magick of the highest totem on the pole. The one that is truth only because of it's practice and consistency with spirit and material, and the highest realms that I could possibly understand. Making magick from science and science from magick, and nearly driving myself mad in the process...I found Xenomancy. I found my answer, I found my inherent truths. For instance, I set up a cosmological sacred math problem like this:

For every factor (freedom), and for the existence (my name here) denoted by the number (f), f(freedom)=truth.

This is a Xenomantic way of saying "The truth will set you free," and made it apply to me, while putting the spirit of magick into it. Then I went on...

If Truth=what is, then (what is)=/=(what is not)
(what is)=?
NOTICE: True nature of (God)=(I am what I am)
(I am what I am)=Reflexive statement
Reflexive statement: (it is the way it is)=Reflexive affirmation=True?
Truth:
Truth=(What is)
Therefore
(what is)=Existence=(god)

Truth: Truth=/=lie
God=truth
god=/=lie
For every factor (freedom), and for the existence (my name here) denoted by the number (f), f(freedom)=truth.
Truth=?
Consistency: Truth=(what I make it)
Truth=Positive energy
Positive energy=(comfortability)
f(comfortability(truth))=(lie) are not truth
IF:Truth=Existence and Lie=/=truth...
Therefore: Lie=does not exist
FINAL SOLUTION: f(lie)=(no solution, discomfort, untruth)
COLLOQUIALISM: The truth will set me free, I believe in the truth. If the true essence of -God- is in reality, existence itself, then the opposite of -that which is god/absolute- is the essence of nonexistence. Nonexistence is the essence of lies. If lies are that which do not exist, then the opposite of God, or rather, Existence, does not exist. Therefore, if the value known as (satan) represents lies in this reality and dimension, then the value known as (Satan) does not exist.

I make Truth to be my God. When I speak of God, I refer to truth, not the other way around. Because I believe myself real, by property "I think therefore I am," I hereby use the truth to set me free, by believing in truth, and rejecting lies. Therefore, all binds of "satan" do not apply to me, for I believe that the cosmological value known as "satan" is a representative of (lies) in this reality and dimension.

I am therefore, by application of Xenomantic workings, banished from all influences of lies. May the truth be my guide, for the truth has set me free.


And thats why I hold a grudge against satanism, and why I chose to stay away from it. It is because I am what I am. The Xenomancer. And that's how I roll.

EDITED ADDENDUM:

Sorry the tone sounded arrogant, folks. I just wanted a way to say that because of what I am, and the fact that I accepted it, I came to terms with the fact that I will always have an inherent difference and conflict with satanists: That's just the way I am; that's just the way it is.

{the way it is (the way I am)} = (inherently conflictious with satanists) <===== Xenomantic reasoning for those researching a bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Apr 28 2007, 06:10 PM


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-Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb
-Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen
-One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer
-I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer
-This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer

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alia
post Apr 30 2007, 08:13 PM
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Yes, even if things here are much better than 15 years ago, that concerns mainly Athens and other big cities. I canít say that there was some serious harassment towards me the last years, because simply I was very discreet concerning my beliefs during this period. In previous years most of the cases in which I was harassed doesn't concern so much expressing my beliefs, as not sharing the beliefs of other people here which they consider offensive. Here, the outcome of challenging the generally accepted beliefs, really depends on luck; you may do, or say something and nothing will happen in return; and then again you may do or say something and what will follow will be simply insane and from some point of view hilarious. It all depends on if you fall on some religious fanatic or not. Unfortunately we have a lot of them here.

So, once, 20 years ago I was attacked (bodily I mean), because I was eating ice-cream on the street on the Good Friday, I hadnít done it on purpose; I had enough sense to know that something like this could turn bad; I simply had forgotten what day it was.

Another time, 7-8 years ago, I was thrown out of a church, because I had found pilled up, in a dusty corner, some frames with the detailed diagrams of a nearby ancient temple and the area around it (I donít know why they were left there) and started to examine them. As it wasnít during the mass or something, it didnít cross my mind that the people who were visiting the church would get offended (sometimes I really canít grasp how their mind work), but apparently they did get offended, every single one of them. I tried to find those diagrams on the internet and found some of them at the perseus.tufts.edu, but not all and not so detailed. So the next time that we were around there, I persuaded my husband to take the frames out of the church (they were heavy) to study them by the day light, much better, everybody happy (except of my husband who had to carry the frames out of the church and then in again).

But mostly, what bother me, are the conditions concerning religious matters here. I mean, from 3rd grade and until I finished high-school I had to attend a ďbible historyĒ lesson at school; that applies to all schools here. We were taught the Orthodox Christian dogma and only that and nothing else. Arguments were not welcomed (a friend of mine started an argument with the teacher and ended up reading the lesson all summer in order to pass the class). It was a lesson that you had to pass in order to pass the class. The only way to avoid it, was to bring a certificate that you belonged to another dogma or religion (a certificate, not a note from your parents), in which case you still would have to deal with the teacher of the lesson, who would try to bully you to attend it anyway, as well as the insults of other teachers and students, but you would have the legal cover to not attend it (I saw this happening to a girl in my classroom, who was a Jehovah Witness).

Then, we had to attend church with the school once a month. I managed to avoid it every single time, in high school, using menstruation as an excuse. They knew that I was lying, but they couldnít prove it.

Another thing is that here everything is functioning in accordance with the local religious believes. For example, my husband and I usually go on excursion on the Good Friday, as we both are not working on this day. The only problem is that, on this day it is impossible to find a tavern that would serve food during the day time. You canít imagine how angry I was, spending all the day hungry because of that. The next time I brought food with me.

Another outrageous event, indirectly connected to me, was when some of my friends in the university got arrested, when one of them lost his temper, irritated by the inquisitive style in which another student asked him if he is a satanist, (he wasnít, not that I would mind if he would be, but as simple as that: he wasnít) and answered that yes, he is and whatís the otherís fÖ problem with it etc, etc. This dialog took place in the university. Some hours later the police arrived at their houses. They were arrested (all of them) and their homes were searched. That was closely after a very unpleasant event concerning satanists that had happened here approximately 15 years ago. At the end, nothing happened, they were released and we were rolling on the floor with laughter talking about what had happened. (I literally felt from the chair from laughter, when one of them was describing some really idiotic dialogs occurred during the interrogation.) But thinking about it a little bit moreÖ itís not funny.

Considering all the above, yes, I do have problem with some of the Christians (not all of them). What bothers me is the inability to tolerate other people beliefs, the unwillingness to even examine the possibility of the existence of anything different from what they know. It simply happens that here, people that demonstrate this kind of behavior are Christians.

At the end I simply avoid any kind of discussion on spiritual matters, with people around me, except of my husband and maybe a little with my mother. In other cases, people around me simply donít know what I am thinking.

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Sarena
post Jun 30 2007, 08:08 AM
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I have been discriminated against because of my religion and my beliefs but I'm still in high school so I just assume that's the way it's going to be until I finish. It's only been the one time by a person who everybody else is against because he tries so hard to fit into the mould of being a stereotypical 'jerk' that I feel sort of sorry for him. People don't understand why I refrained from eating meat and they just assume it's religious. Also their only information source of Hinduism is Apu from the Simpsons- so I get a few remarks from that, but not really in a hateful way.

I don't resent Christians as a group. I don't resent Christianity. I did resent a female in the time period of when Christian youth group was all hot and pretending to have morals was cool, told me to convert to Christianity because she didn't want me to go to Hell.

Then again while I was at a Hindu youth group, pitching my idealistic naive views of integration and multiculturalism, the other Hindus were discriminating against Muslims. I of course defended them with all my might, even though I didn't have much ammo. I was of course slaughtered as everyone there was against me (10 against 1) and much older than me. That being said, I'm not against Hindus or Muslims.

I don't believe religion itself makes me resent some one.

I think it comes back to personality and whether that person decided to justify their lack of (insert a positive attribute here) with religion.


This post has been edited by Sarena: Jun 30 2007, 08:09 AM


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You say there's strength in the power to control No, There's strength in only love and compassion

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Khenti_Amenti
post Oct 22 2007, 04:15 AM
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What i find frightening is that the Pagan community (in lack of a better word) is starting to show some of the same trappings.
Words like "Cultural theft" are invented for those who use anything Culturally specific out of that context.

Syncretic thoughts are looked down at despite the fact that there is not a Religion on the planet that is not Syncretized.

Differnences in Ethics and whole Metaphysical paradigms are disregarded and people and Religous thought measured against ones own.

Actually to be totally honest i kind of find this fundamentalist behaviour in Hermetic and Thelemic circles too.

I can deal with the Christians, i expect it from them since their Religion has an Omnist nature (in most forms).
But i get scared when itīs "my guys".

Iīm not saying you should somehow be more tolerant simply becouse you belong to a Religion lumped up under the term "Pagan" or Heathen" (hard enough to define as it is).
I do kind of expect a bit of openmindedness from Hermetics though and i defenetly expect it from Thelemites.

I dont expect people to simply accept "fluff" or "Fakelore" out of tolerance, or even like all Religous or Philosophical thought.
That is not what tolerance means.


I do however expect an openmindedness and a difference between Theology from ones own Religion / system and Academic discussion on Religous Science or Religous Philosophy.
Especially if you like most Reconstructive Pagans, claim to be so academic.

This post has been edited by Khenti_Amenti: Oct 22 2007, 04:19 AM

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SeekerVI
post Oct 22 2007, 10:15 PM
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From: Sol III
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif) When going undercover or being inconspicuous, always test the waters! I say things like "I read in the newspaper today about some [X] who did [Y]! What do you think?" Thus your probing of someone's Zealous Defense Mechanism will be thought as chit-chat. If they blow their top, it won't be at you personally. Also, avoid wearing any paraphernalia that can't be quickly hidden or explained as some clothes designer's weird artistry. If you've got tattoos, use makeup and claim it's covering a bruise or pimple. Or a bandage lightly smeared with old ketchup (if you don't wear makeup), that way if someone rips it off you can scream that they have left a "horrific mark of [Z] on your wound."
And watch out for any other fakers trying to expose you to draw attention away from them.
QUOTE
"You don't have to outrun the monsters . . . if you can outrun your friends." - Spooks
Of course if you're more into being yourself all the time, I find it helps to have a bunch of pamphlets (or even better, hard little books) introducing your particular faith system. Information contained in cute, small packages seems to have more appeal than legal looking things. Cute little bows have a disarming effect. At the very least, you'll have something to throw at your pursuers while running away.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sly.gif)
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As to the topic... I am of the opinion almost everyone's belief systems is like a tiny iron box, with little room for new ideas to fit inside. And if something new does get pushed in, it will invariably displace something old.
QUOTE(Acid09 @ Jan 8 2007, 04:26 PM) *
Do you hold any prejudice against a particular religion?
All organized religions! When more value is placed on a container than it's contents, it is easy to loose something precious.

Science has been the religion my family, friends, and local society. Conjecture on the existence of god is fair and good, but conjecture on the validity of the Laws Of Thermodynamics? "Blasphemy! You don't know what you're talking about! Some famous egghead hypothesized it and it works what other famous eggheads have hypothesized, so it must be true! Here's an enormous volume on the subject you should read before I listen to such comments!"
It's stunning to watch normally rational people go nuts with a conviction the claim existed only in "crazy religious people" a few seconds before. I think the world populace must be comprised of 22% Fanatics (who all hate eachother) + 78% People-trying-to-pass-under-their-radar (who are rather decent human beings).
At least Science has the highest impossible-into-possible turnover rate for new ideas of any religion in history, though that's not saying much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif)
QUOTE
"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also."
- Mark Twain

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