Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages< 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
 Q&a: Lbrp And The Pentagram Rituals, What do you want to know about the pentagram rituals?
AmethistA
post Dec 14 2007, 11:17 AM
Post #61


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 5
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Nero @ Dec 14 2007, 05:24 PM) *
Some people are just not comfortable with Jewish and Christian references. Obviously the Golden Dawn system is built heavily on them, but if you feel you need to change them to better match your view of the divine then that is fine and encouraged. The newer copies of Regardie's Middle Pillar book actually have several versions of the LBRP using Celtic, Pagan, Egyptian, etc language and symbols.


Thank you. I believe i will practice the nomal version daily for about a month, and then build my own one.

Currently i am working with Liber XXV, the star ruby, daily. What do you think of this ritual?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 14 2007, 11:31 AM
Post #62


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(AmethistA @ Dec 14 2007, 12:17 PM) *
Thank you. I believe i will practice the nomal version daily for about a month, and then build my own one.

Currently i am working with Liber XXV, the star ruby, daily. What do you think of this ritual?


The star ruby is a very good ritual but in appearance it is the same as the LBRP but it is in fact very different. The LBRP is a passive banishing. It is very much centered in malkuth and is greatly concerned with establishing equilibrium. Within that equilibrium nothing unbalanced can exist. Which makes it a great deal suited to more things than just banishing. It is a spiritual vitamin, taken daily builds up the sphere of sensation and purges the mind and lower self.

The star ruby on the other hand is very active. Centered in Geburah, it banishes with fire and force. Also with the NOX signs it pushes the magician in essence through the abyss to rest in Binah and saturn. So it has additional qualities beyond just a simple banishing as well. Tends to tilt the magician towards higher levels of energy and existence.

As you can see both rituals have a place in a magicians tool box. I suggest working with the LBRP first to build up the systems and establish that oh so important equilibrium which is the basis of the work. Then try a hand at the star ruby for awhile. Once you have experience with both you should get a feel for when one is needed over the other depending on what you are doing and working on at the time.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

AmethistA
post Dec 14 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #63


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 5
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Nero @ Dec 14 2007, 06:31 PM) *
The star ruby is a very good ritual but in appearance it is the same as the LBRP but it is in fact very different. The LBRP is a passive banishing. It is very much centered in malkuth and is greatly concerned with establishing equilibrium. Within that equilibrium nothing unbalanced can exist. Which makes it a great deal suited to more things than just banishing. It is a spiritual vitamin, taken daily builds up the sphere of sensation and purges the mind and lower self.

The star ruby on the other hand is very active. Centered in Geburah, it banishes with fire and force. Also with the NOX signs it pushes the magician in essence through the abyss to rest in Binah and saturn. So it has additional qualities beyond just a simple banishing as well. Tends to tilt the magician towards higher levels of energy and existence.

As you can see both rituals have a place in a magicians tool box. I suggest working with the LBRP first to build up the systems and establish that oh so important equilibrium which is the basis of the work. Then try a hand at the star ruby for awhile. Once you have experience with both you should get a feel for when one is needed over the other depending on what you are doing and working on at the time.


Thank you for your answer. Yes, this is not the first time i encounter the idea that liber XXV simbolically puts the magickian close to the Abyss, as a consequence of the N.O.X. signs. By the way, which sequence of signs do you use? I find myself well with the "Vir/Puella/Mulier/Puer" combination, it being in harmony and specular with the forces invoked at the quarters, but i know that the specific order of the figures varies from magician to magician.

Plus, something i have always asked myself: the LBRP hah been in more modern times taught together with a specific visualization pattern (like the one in Kraig's MM).

What kind of visualization would you find useful for the star ruby?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 14 2007, 12:29 PM
Post #64


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(AmethistA @ Dec 14 2007, 12:46 PM) *
Thank you for your answer. Yes, this is not the first time i encounter the idea that liber XXV simbolically puts the magickian close to the Abyss, as a consequence of the N.O.X. signs. By the way, which sequence of signs do you use? I find myself well with the "Vir/Puella/Mulier/Puer" combination, it being in harmony and specular with the forces invoked at the quarters, but i know that the specific order of the figures varies from magician to magician.

Plus, something i have always asked myself: the LBRP hah been in more modern times taught together with a specific visualization pattern (like the one in Kraig's MM).

What kind of visualization would you find useful for the star ruby?


As I said the star ruby is centered in geburah and moves up through the abyss. The correct order of the N.O.X. signs is as follows:
Puer grade sign for geburah, N
Vir grade sign for chesed, O
Puella gate to the abyss
Mulier across to the other side of the abyss, X
Isis Rejoicing, grade sign for Binah

As for the visualizations it is hard to say as crowley never gave any, as well as they are a personal choice I believe.

But studying them it seems to indicate that
JUNGES is like Chokmah or Sulphur, a primal, swirling power. The first spark.
SYNOCHES is like Binah or Mercury, the first spark of the Junges flows into the Synoches who are being instilled with strength and power.
TELETARCAI is like da'ath or the middle pillar, the Synoches give birth to the Teletarcai as the result of the insemination of Sunoches by Junges, also is the Agent of Initiation.
The DAEMONS are readly seen from greek sources, act as the bridge between man and the gods, or our link to the supernarals.

The interesting thing is if you follow the placement of the guardians in a invoking clockwise rotation about the circle, it indicates supernarals down to us as we are going up to the supernarals via the NOX signs. We are moving toward one another.

Review all the tid bits you can about them, meditate upon them, and try and build up your own images and feelings for them. Time will be your teacher as you work with the ritual.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

AmethistA
post Dec 15 2007, 03:38 AM
Post #65


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 5
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Nero @ Dec 14 2007, 07:29 PM) *
As I said the star ruby is centered in geburah and moves up through the abyss. The correct order of the N.O.X. signs is as follows:
Puer grade sign for geburah, N
Vir grade sign for chesed, O
Puella gate to the abyss
Mulier across to the other side of the abyss, X
Isis Rejoicing, grade sign for Binah

As for the visualizations it is hard to say as crowley never gave any, as well as they are a personal choice I believe.

But studying them it seems to indicate that
JUNGES is like Chokmah or Sulphur, a primal, swirling power. The first spark.
SYNOCHES is like Binah or Mercury, the first spark of the Junges flows into the Synoches who are being instilled with strength and power.
TELETARCAI is like da'ath or the middle pillar, the Synoches give birth to the Teletarcai as the result of the insemination of Sunoches by Junges, also is the Agent of Initiation.
The DAEMONS are readly seen from greek sources, act as the bridge between man and the gods, or our link to the supernarals.

The interesting thing is if you follow the placement of the guardians in a invoking clockwise rotation about the circle, it indicates supernarals down to us as we are going up to the supernarals via the NOX signs. We are moving toward one another.

Review all the tid bits you can about them, meditate upon them, and try and build up your own images and feelings for them. Time will be your teacher as you work with the ritual.



Well, actually there exist no correct order for the N.O.X. signs in the Star Ruby; Different sources will provide you with different orders: Duquette instructs in doing "puella, puer, vir, mulier" if my memory is correct; The official version, as taught by the caliphate OTO, instead, follows the order of the invokations, so that the signs given during the Paian correspond to the earlier part of the ritual (So, invoking THERION in the east, and therion being VIR, in the east i make the sign of VIR, and so on.)

Insted, i have not yet studied the Chaldean oracles and their relations with crowley's liber XXV, but your suggestion will be definitely an excellent starting point to do this.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

AmethistA
post Dec 19 2007, 04:16 PM
Post #66


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 5
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




As i said i am continuing practicing liber XXV daily. My main problem is visualization: i am still not able to visualize clearly a pentagram; Even if i try hard, with my eyes closed, i just see the part of it on which i'm focusing, and when i try to see it as a whole i lose it. Out of curiosity, how long does it take before you start visualizing correctly and clearly?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 20 2007, 07:28 AM
Post #67


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(AmethistA @ Dec 19 2007, 05:16 PM) *
As i said i am continuing practicing liber XXV daily. My main problem is visualization: i am still not able to visualize clearly a pentagram; Even if i try hard, with my eyes closed, i just see the part of it on which i'm focusing, and when i try to see it as a whole i lose it. Out of curiosity, how long does it take before you start visualizing correctly and clearly?


I assume you mean the visualized pents and not the actual astral pents you are creating. In either case it depends on the person. Dedicated work and it can easily be accomplished in a few weeks to a couple of months.

One trick to help with the visualization is to draw a perfect pent on paper using a ruler and compass. Blue for the LBRP and Red for the Star Ruby. Then just stare at it, burn the image into your brain. Perhaps meditate upon the image for a short time before your performance of the ritual. You can set up the paper in front of you and stare at it while breathing, after a few minutes close your eyes and try to maintain the image. Then later for the star ruby, sit and practice imagining the pent upon the forehead instead of just in front of you.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Daathvader
post Dec 20 2007, 10:48 AM
Post #68


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 19
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




I have a question that I don't think I saw yet. It's about the actual drawing of the pentagrams.

One thing that seems universal in all versions of the LBRP that I've seen is an emphasis on the pentagrams being as geometrically perfect as possible. I'm pretty sure I understand why and I'll lay my understanding out here:

The pentagram represents a perfect balance between the elements of earth, air, fire, water and spirit. When expressed in a more or less concrete form (be it physical or astral), the perfection of that balance is expressed in the pentagram's geometry--the angles being equal to each other, the length of each line being equal to the others, etc. If an angle is too obtuse or a line is too long, that represents an imbalance, the resulting pentagram is skewed and it no longer embodies a perfect balance.

In principle that's all well and good--and I'm sure that even if your pentagrams are pretty lopsided, provided you've done your best to draw them carefully, you've also succeeded in pouring a good amount of intent into them, and I'm sure that fact was considered in devising the ritual as well.

Still, I have to ask how important it is in the LBRP to draw exact pentagrams, in relation to the importance of other aspects such as vibrating the names, visualizing, etc.? See, one of my problems is in drawing the horizontal line a little bit too high and ending up with a relatively tiny Spirit point. When I draw the pentagrams imperfectly, I also have trouble visualizing them perfectly.

I want to know how much energy I should be putting into perfecting my pentagram's shape as opposed to other things.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 20 2007, 12:23 PM
Post #69


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(Daathvader @ Dec 20 2007, 11:48 AM) *
Still, I have to ask how important it is in the LBRP to draw exact pentagrams, in relation to the importance of other aspects such as vibrating the names, visualizing, etc.? See, one of my problems is in drawing the horizontal line a little bit too high and ending up with a relatively tiny Spirit point. When I draw the pentagrams imperfectly, I also have trouble visualizing them perfectly.

I want to know how much energy I should be putting into perfecting my pentagram's shape as opposed to other things.


It's important, for the reasons you said and others. There is a chapter in Regardie's Middle Pillar book and the geometry of the pentagram and how the proportions relate to other qabalaic symbolism. Also reference Levi's writings about how the pentagram strikes terror in the lesser spirits as it represents spirits domination over the elements. Besides you want it correct for the same reason a soldier shines his shoes and presses his shirt, no reason to be sloppy in one's work as it leads to sloppiness in other others.

Generally my advice is to break the LBRP into parts and only concentrate on that one part until it is mastered then add it in while you focus on the next one until the ritual is perfected. So,
step 1. memorization of the ritual
step 2. work on the movements, the step work and drawing the pents
step 3. work on the visualizations
step 4. vibrations of the names and feeling the energy

A few tricks for drawing the pents. Use your body. Start off from the left hip, up to just above the head, down to the right hip, left shoulder, right shoulder, then back down to the left hip. Rather than watching the finger or wand, keep your eyes focused on the point you are moving toward. It seems to help keep the arm steady. Just keep working on it, it becomes second nature after awhile.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Squishy
post Dec 21 2007, 12:07 PM
Post #70


Initiate
Group Icon
Posts: 4
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Muskegon, MI
Reputation: none




For the past little while, I've been doing an in-depth study of the LBRP. So far I'm doing fine, but I've come up to the evocation, and I keep finding something I can't reconcile.

I understand the ritual is not elemental based, I really do, however during the evocation that's the only way I can justify Uriel at the Left Hand. I know enough about the ritual to realize that the operator is at the intersection of Pe and Samekh, and the evocation makes since until the last part- Raphael in Tiphareth before you, Gabriel in Yesod behind you, Michael in Hod at your right, but then at your left is Uriel. Am I missing something about Netzach, everything I've ever read has Haniel as the archangel in Netzach?

The only justification I've found is that Uriel rules the Northern Quadrangle, but at that point it seems more appropriate to use Haniel- the ritual seems more sephirotic than elemental, to me at least.

What am I missing?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Dec 21 2007, 12:44 PM
Post #71


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(Squishy @ Dec 21 2007, 01:07 PM) *
For the past little while, I've been doing an in-depth study of the LBRP. So far I'm doing fine, but I've come up to the evocation, and I keep finding something I can't reconcile.

I understand the ritual is not elemental based, I really do, however during the evocation that's the only way I can justify Uriel at the Left Hand. I know enough about the ritual to realize that the operator is at the intersection of Pe and Samekh, and the evocation makes since until the last part- Raphael in Tiphareth before you, Gabriel in Yesod behind you, Michael in Hod at your right, but then at your left is Uriel. Am I missing something about Netzach, everything I've ever read has Haniel as the archangel in Netzach?

The only justification I've found is that Uriel rules the Northern Quadrangle, but at that point it seems more appropriate to use Haniel- the ritual seems more sephirotic than elemental, to me at least.

What am I missing?


The idea that the ritual puts you at Pe and Samekh was Crowley's concept and not one I agree with. As I said before the ritual takes place wholly within Malkuth. Malkuth is sub divided up into four quarters, hence the color scheme for that sphere. The four archangels called to guard the circle are the four guardians of Malkuth, which is where we live and work.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

kairos
post Jan 10 2008, 01:13 AM
Post #72


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 31
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Misery, USA
Reputation: none




Though not the LBRP, in regarding the GIRH, in "Magick" Crowley mentions using the Formula of Ararita before the God-name of the planet. Two questions: first; would one simply do the LIRH first with the elemental hexagrams and Ararita and then do the earth hexagrams with the divine name for the planet and close with the INRI, IAO, LVX, etc. or merely say Ararita before the god-name using just the GIRH. Second, when invoking deities, should one merely use the Hebrew divine name or the actual name of the God. For example, you give the hexagram of Luna in an effort to invoke Artemis. Would you say Shaddai El Chai (or possibly ALIM,) or Artemis. Hope these questions are enough on topic.


--------------------
BELIEF IS THE DEATH OF INTELLIGENCE; for as soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." -Robert Anton Wilson

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Jan 14 2008, 08:09 AM
Post #73


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




I am a little confused by your question. You want to know how to invoke Artemis? There are a number of ways but the way I would do it is thus:

LBRP (optional)
LBRH
Purify and consecrate the temple
LIRH of Luna
GIRH of Luna
Invocation of Luna
Invocation of Artemis
Purify and consecrate the temple
License to depart
GBRH of Luna
LBRH of Luna
LBRH
LBRP (optional)


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Jan 28 2008, 08:03 AM
Post #74


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




Hello again Ftr Nero;

Going through 'Kabbalah Magic' Lyam gives the practice recommended for each grade but I am in crisis as he says to follow his course and his course only which is fine but he says to do rituals once daily when the majority of practitioners, myself included, are used to a twice daily practice as recommended by Regardie and others... Do I stick to it and practice once daily giving up on the nightly rituals or continue invoking in the morning and banishing in the evening? It would lessen the effect of the element in each grade I guess so would it then make sense to go through his course and double up..? Practice both in the morning and evening even though only once is reccomended?

This post has been edited by Mchawi: Jan 28 2008, 08:05 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Mar 7 2008, 11:17 AM
Post #75


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




Right, I've got myself in a bit of a rut and have taken on a technique that the golden dawn manual advises against doing. Think Kraig got me into it to start off with, not sure. Up until now I have been bringing in the elements to oust them as you would a God name drawing it into myself and using the projection technique to direct it toward its relevant quarter and pentagram.... it works perfectly but it is advised against in the G.D manual, I'm assuming its because it may corrupt the energies invoked within oneself but as it works well I don't understand how it could be a problem, am now proficient in regards to the LBRP and BRH am getting a 90% success rate (approx) just concerned about this technique... especially as I use the egyptian version of the lbrp as outlined in I.R's Middle Pillar which puts focus on the elements rather than god names... tried to go back to using the hebrew version but couldn't make it work, too late to be messing around with something I've become accustomed to I guess....

Any advice?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Apr 22 2008, 05:18 AM
Post #76


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




Ok, finally started in 1=10 grade yesterday. Have a few questions about L.T Christophers approach to the ritual without being overly inquisitive and bugging you, nothing major I guess.

Notice that L.T.C lays out the ritual going from South - West - East - North but still talks about 'a circle', its left me wondering whether the Pentagrams should be connected somehow as the connecting line would need to be drawn past the North to the east and round again. Considered dissecting the ritual to make it a complete circle but can see that approaching the north in such a way is beneficial.

Also, does a person use the projection and sign of silence when in earth grade or are these 0=0 signs to be replaced by the 1=10 sign... to give the sign of silence, to disassociate ones energy from a sign/act while invoking seems a bit odd.

No more questions after this, tend to take my work seriously, like having everything nailed down, stable for easy traversing as it were. Am a capricorn, no time for unstable footing. .lol. Your ritual seems to fit in well with the work, wasn't sure where to put it at first but it fits well directly after the invocations facing North, slight problem having to follow it up with the M.P perhaps, would be good to go straight into the tree of life meditation work, might take to doing it after the M.P rather than before.

Thanks.
M

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post Apr 22 2008, 01:24 PM
Post #77


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




You always complete the circle leaving no breaks in it. I have no idea why he lays out the ritual the way he does, but in the golden dawn tradition and all that follow it you always begin and end in the east moving clockwise.


QUOTE(Mchawi @ Apr 22 2008, 07:18 AM) *
Also, does a person use the projection and sign of silence when in earth grade or are these 0=0 signs to be replaced by the 1=10 sign... to give the sign of silence, to disassociate ones energy from a sign/act while invoking seems a bit odd.


It depends on what school of thought you are from or are taught from. The manner I favor is stabbing the pentagram charging it from tiphareth, then giving the grade sign. The signs are the mundras of the west and affect the subtle bodies when used.

The comment about the sign of silence shows a complete lack of knowledge on the neophyte signs. It is a two part sign and are always used together. The projecting sign literally project the invoked force to the ends of the universe. To perform it correctly it really needs to be done using the vibratory formula of the Middle Pillar. The sign of silence is the passive aspect of the projection sign. Once you have projected the force to the ends of your strength you fall back into the sign of silence as the projected force comes rebounding back from the edge of the universe to you. Using the sign allows the force to safely wash over you and imprint upon your sphere of sensation.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Apr 23 2008, 05:05 AM
Post #78


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




QUOTE(Fio Praeter Humanus @ Apr 22 2008, 02:24 PM) *
You always complete the circle leaving no breaks in it. I have no idea why he lays out the ritual the way he does, but in the golden dawn tradition and all that follow it you always begin and end in the east moving clockwise.


It does seem a bit odd, don't think its a type error but in the prayer says, ''Thou art the rumbling of the midnight depths, the hurtling granules of action'' The prayer to the North, ''Thou art the foothold and the foundation, the anchor of the soul and the matrix of the wise. Amen'' appropriate for the North perhaps but I have to admit I'm not fond of the flow, from East to North and back to east again. The self initiation into the G.D book goes from East and round as normal in a way that is preferable.... did think it was specific, for the invocation of earth, but the same is to be done in the other grades as well, round to the east, back round to the North then facing east again.

QUOTE
It depends on what school of thought you are from or are taught from. The manner I favor is stabbing the pentagram charging it from tiphareth, then giving the grade sign. The signs are the mundras of the west and affect the subtle bodies when used.

The comment about the sign of silence shows a complete lack of knowledge on the neophyte signs. It is a two part sign and are always used together. The projecting sign literally project the invoked force to the ends of the universe. To perform it correctly it really needs to be done using the vibratory formula of the Middle Pillar. The sign of silence is the passive aspect of the projection sign. Once you have projected the force to the ends of your strength you fall back into the sign of silence as the projected force comes rebounding back from the edge of the universe to you. Using the sign allows the force to safely wash over you and imprint upon your sphere of sensation.


.lol. Know what I'm doing, kind of, got my wires crossed as I took to using the Egyptian version of the LBRP outlined in Regardies book using elemental names rather than God ones... I draw in the elements and project them from myself out through the pentagrams into the depths of the universe and close with the sign of silence preventing their return as you stated but I shouldn't be drawing in the elements, the technique is only for God names.... In invoking I do the same but as its invoking I considered that I want it to bounce back, like sending out a request or call if you will, thought perhaps I wanted to keep that connection with the signs until I banish them. As I'm using L.T Christophers text this isn't so much of a problem as he uses the last syllable charging approach but does as you do, stabs rather than projects to charge.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Apr 24 2008, 11:47 AM
Post #79


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




Don't understand why L.T.C invokes in such a fashion, thought/think it may have to do with the temple space although that would differ for each grade, just can't see its function. All of the other texts state clearly that invoking is done from East round clockwise and back again. He also implies that one should do the same in the banishing of the element although that is supposed to be done anti clockwise.

Did the invoking as normal last night to better gauge on the difference in flow, the attunment ritual fits perfectly that way but as the invoking style is given for each grade I'm going to have to do it the way it is given. Surprised I didn't notice the diffrence beforehand, just took it for being the LiRP as normal.

Hope to write him and ask about it.

Peace
M

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Gesigewigus
post May 29 2008, 01:06 PM
Post #80


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 43
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Toronto, Ontario
Reputation: none




Why in the LBRP do we place Geburah on our right, and Gedulah on our left?

On the Tree, Geburah is on the left, and Gedulah/Chesed on the right, so why do we reverse them inside of ourselves?


--------------------
When we first begin all things simply are.
As we grow all things are external.
As we learn all things are internal.
As we understand all things are not.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Fio Praeter Humanus
post May 29 2008, 02:20 PM
Post #81


Theurgist
Group Icon
Posts: 511
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: South, GA
Reputation: 6 pts




QUOTE(Gesigewigus @ May 29 2008, 03:06 PM) *
Why in the LBRP do we place Geburah on our right, and Gedulah on our left?

On the Tree, Geburah is on the left, and Gedulah/Chesed on the right, so why do we reverse them inside of ourselves?


When you face the tree of life, the black pillar is on the left and the white pillar is on the right. But during the QC, MP, and other rites you are associating yourself with Adam Kadmon, archetypical man. So you are actually standing between the pillars, with the black pillar on your right and the white on your left.

Imagine the pillars before you, then turn around and step back into them.

Now this gets complicated when you project your sphere of sensation into a sphere, where you actually have two sets of pillars before and behind you, but that is a completely different issue.


--------------------

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Gesigewigus
post Jun 1 2008, 09:32 PM
Post #82


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 43
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Toronto, Ontario
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Fio Praeter Humanus @ May 29 2008, 04:20 PM) *
you are associating yourself with Adam Kadmon, archetypical man. So you are actually standing between the pillars, with the black pillar on your right and the white on your left.



Okay, and other than superimposing the figure over the tree is there a reason? Like why is it that he is seen that way, not the other way?

Another question, is what is the difference between the LBRP and the LIRP? I know the difference in how they are performed, but I can't recall anything that really said why or when you should do one over the other.

Just thinking over them both, they seem to do the same thing superficially at least, just through different means.


--------------------
When we first begin all things simply are.
As we grow all things are external.
As we learn all things are internal.
As we understand all things are not.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Gesigewigus
post Jun 19 2008, 09:43 PM
Post #83


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 43
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Toronto, Ontario
Reputation: none




Another question.

I've read that the Sign of Silence can be done with different fingers for different elements, and the pointer finger, most commonly used in the LBRP, is the Sign of Silence for Water. Why is Water used rather than Spirit (the Thumb) or anything else?


--------------------
When we first begin all things simply are.
As we grow all things are external.
As we learn all things are internal.
As we understand all things are not.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Jun 20 2008, 11:39 AM
Post #84


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts




QUOTE(Gesigewigus @ Jun 1 2008, 10:32 PM) *
Okay, and other than superimposing the figure over the tree is there a reason? Like why is it that he is seen that way, not the other way?

Another question, is what is the difference between the LBRP and the LIRP? I know the difference in how they are performed, but I can't recall anything that really said why or when you should do one over the other.

Just thinking over them both, they seem to do the same thing superficially at least, just through different means.


LBRP = Lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram.

Used for banishing any of the 4 elements either specifically or all at once via earth.

LiRP = Lesser invoking ritual of the pentagram.

Used for invoking a specific element.

You banish with earth prior to any ritual then invoke the element you want to work with and then banish it again.

Banish - Invoke - Banish.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)

This post has been edited by Mchawi: Jun 20 2008, 11:39 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

azareth
post Jun 30 2008, 08:45 AM
Post #85


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 149
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




Ok,
what are the visualizations that go with every part of the LBRP GBRP , for example when vibrating sacred names,you visualize Light coming out of your mouth and then inhale it and then exhale it back to enforce the pentagram. or during the Q.C you visualize your feet on earth while your head in space to unite the Microcosm with the macrocosm..
can you please elaborate..?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Gesigewigus
post Jul 1 2008, 09:00 PM
Post #86


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 43
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Toronto, Ontario
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Mchawi @ Jun 20 2008, 01:39 PM) *
LBRP = Lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram.

Used for banishing any of the 4 elements either specifically or all at once via earth.

LiRP = Lesser invoking ritual of the pentagram.

Used for invoking a specific element.

You banish with earth prior to any ritual then invoke the element you want to work with and then banish it again.

Banish - Invoke - Banish.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)


That doesn't match with what Fio Praeter Humanus had said. That's the old assumptions I worked from, but if FPH is right, I'd think there is something different going on. I mean, you aren't Banishing Earth, you're Banishing Assiyah, to Create a balanced "zone" for your magick, but in the end this "banishing" ritual, invokes, the Archangels, and the Worlds they rule to make this zone. So if it's making this realm of potential for your magick, what is the point of the Invoking, or is it just "tweak" the balance towards the realm/element you may want for a specific working.


--------------------
When we first begin all things simply are.
As we grow all things are external.
As we learn all things are internal.
As we understand all things are not.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Velarius
post Jul 3 2008, 07:51 AM
Post #87


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 35
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New England
Reputation: none




I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this.

I just wanted to post some results that i have had when practicing these rituals ... especially the LBRP. I just think that the effects are amazing, in that amount of energy that is created, the negative energies that are banished, and the great balancing and energizing effect that its use has had so far on me. I'm excited to keep moving in my practice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif)


--------------------
In the end we belong to both the light and the darkness ... and in some ways ... to neither

Velarius - Wizard, Mystic, and Spiritualist

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Petrus
post Oct 13 2008, 12:45 PM
Post #88


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 227
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 6 pts




Something interesting that I've noticed...I've been playing World of Warcraft for over two years now, and although my interest has waned, for some reason I just kept playing it.

I began doing the LBRP regularly probably two weeks or so ago now, and in that time, I've logged into WoW maybe four times. I'm finding that the more ritual work I do, the less I actually want to play the game. I've also started doing a few other things as well, on and off. I'm wondering what that means, if anything.


--------------------
Magical Evocation. All the fun of train surfing, without having to leave the house.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Velarius
post Nov 11 2008, 09:21 PM
Post #89


Neophyte
Group Icon
Posts: 35
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New England
Reputation: none




QUOTE(Petrus @ Oct 13 2008, 01:45 PM) *

Something interesting that I've noticed...I've been playing World of Warcraft for over two years now, and although my interest has waned, for some reason I just kept playing it.

I began doing the LBRP regularly probably two weeks or so ago now, and in that time, I've logged into WoW maybe four times. I'm finding that the more ritual work I do, the less I actually want to play the game. I've also started doing a few other things as well, on and off. I'm wondering what that means, if anything.


Perhaps that the part of you that gets enjoyment out of the game is a part of you that through your ritual work is evolving. Perhaps you are getting whatever you needed from the game in another way.


--------------------
In the end we belong to both the light and the darkness ... and in some ways ... to neither

Velarius - Wizard, Mystic, and Spiritualist

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Orr
post Mar 29 2009, 10:47 AM
Post #90


3 Posts Probation
Group Icon
Posts: 2
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: none




Velarius how much time have you been doing this ritual???

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Closed
Topic Notes
4 Pages< 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

Collapse

Similar Topics

Topic Title Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
Need Advice On Writing Necro Rituals,spells,etc 4 Xenos 1,020 Jul 16 2012, 03:58 PM
Last post by: Xenos
Lbrp Vs Kabbalah Cross 2 Vermillion 995 Jul 3 2011, 02:22 AM
Last post by: Frater F.A.M.E.
Varying Angles Used In Unicursal Rituals 0 Mchawi 683 Apr 29 2011, 01:54 PM
Last post by: Mchawi
Why The Lbrp? 24 Crab_Shrapnel 1,523 Jan 31 2011, 12:00 AM
Last post by: Lichdar
Some Q's About The Lbrp 5 ManNowDead 700 Oct 12 2010, 09:12 AM
Last post by: th0th

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th April 2017 - 06:29 PM