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 History of the Eight-Pointed Star of Chaos?
Satarel
post Jan 24 2005, 05:15 PM
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I'm just wondering if anyone knows the history of the eight-pointed star?


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Crom Cruach
post Mar 22 2005, 08:05 AM
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Do you mean the Star of Ishtar or the so-called 8 pointed star of chaos

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Satarel
post Mar 22 2005, 09:12 AM
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8 pointed star of chaos. However, I wouldn't mind learning about the star of Ishtar either.


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Crom Cruach
post Mar 22 2005, 12:36 PM
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The Star of Ischtar
This is one of the ideograms for Ischtar, queen of the Heavens; heavenly mother of all borne by women; sister of the highest of the Babylonian gods, the sun god Shamash; the goddess of sexual pleasures and the only real woman god in Babylon and Assyria (all other female gods were but shadows of their male god consorts).
Ischtar is also the goddess of childbirth and as such often depicted with a child in her arms. Being the only real woman god in the Near East for a couple of millennia, up to the time when the new ideology of Christianity expanded over the coastal areas of the eastern Mediterranean region, she is Virgin Mary or, rather, the Holy Virgin is what is left of Ischtar (Astarte, Aphrodite) after Christianity's totally dominant ideological takeover.
Astarte was the Greek form of the Semitic name Astar (Hebrew Astoret) for the queen of the heavens. In the temples of Ischtar, she being the goddess of fertility and thus also of sexual pleasures, girls and women served the believers under surveillance by eunuchs.
Ischtar was, however, also the goddess of hunting and warfare. Since in the skies she was symbolized by Venus she was both the fertility goddess of the Evening star and the war goddess of the Morning star.
This graphic representation of Venus is from Babylonia and the time around 2000 B.C. The two sets of four arms or points of the star sign, one behind the the other, refer to the exactly eight years it takes for either of Venus' two appearances (the Morning and the Evening star) to return to the same sign of the zodiac and the same place in that sign.


Chaos Star
In chaos majick, the 8-pointed star represents the 8 types of majick: Black Majick (death--Saturn), Blue Majick (wealth--Jupiter), Red Majick (war--Mars), Yellow Majick (ego--Sun), Green Majick (love--Venus), Orange Majick (thought--Mercury), Purple or Silver Majick (sex--Moon), and Octarine Majick (the Majician's personal perceptions of color and majick or the "majician-self").

In Wicca, the 8-pointed star in the shape of an 8-spoked wheel represents the 8 ways of making majick ( i.e., chant, dance, flame, etc.); the 8 occasions for ritual (i.e., Winter Solstice, Autumn Equinox, Summer Solstice, etc., or The Wheel of the Year); and the 8 gifts of Aradia (i.e., To divine with cards, to make the ugly beautiful, to tame wild beasts, etc.)

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Satarel
post Mar 22 2005, 01:03 PM
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Interesting - so where does the eight-pointed star of chaos come from?


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Crom Cruach
post Mar 22 2005, 05:34 PM
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8 is a powerfull and mythical number, there are many forms of the 8 pointed star (see www.symbols.com). I cannot help but feel that the chaos version was plaguarised from older existing version. Still I am just a battle hardened and pig-headed old celt who needs some education on the subect (challenge). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/8.gif)

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Pride_is_a_virtue
post Mar 27 2005, 01:23 PM
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I believe the 8-pointed chaos star was derived from Peter Carroll's description of 5 dimensional space. The up-down cross represents the three spatial dimensions, the upper right to lower left represents time while the upper left to lower right represents shadow time.
You can read more about Carroll's shadow-time in the first little bit of Liber Kaos.
Carroll writes "Magicians without some prior knowledge of physics and mathematics might find parts of Principia Magica challenging". I'd also like to add that magicians with a fair amount of the current knowledge of theoretical physics might find parts of Principia Magica to be hogwash.


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Rakesh
post Mar 27 2005, 05:50 PM
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<-


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Satarel
post Mar 27 2005, 06:12 PM
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Rakesh, I don't 'spose we can get that at a readable size?


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Rakesh
post Mar 28 2005, 04:32 PM
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EDITED
Rakesh, please read Forum Guidelines and post oversized images as a link.

http://rakeshovofotky.wz.cz/ccircle5.jpg
Since you asked...

This is the source image

This post has been edited by | Kinjo: Mar 28 2005, 10:36 PM


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Satarel
post Mar 28 2005, 06:00 PM
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Now that is interesting... unfortunately, I can only make out three of the 8 names around the sides...


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Rakesh
post Mar 29 2005, 01:29 PM
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*casts a shy look in Kinjo's general direction* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)

About the names...not sure myself...and embarassed as I am to say this, I don't know where the picture is from...looks heavily grimoirish (that is, the divine names and archangels are scattered around in a somewhat irrational manner)

If anybody knows something about the origin of it, I'd be super grateful


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Satarel
post Mar 29 2005, 02:39 PM
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Well in the circle itself,
Michael, Gabriel and Raphael are the obvious ones.

There's also "V'yiel" (which more probably is U'riel), and I think a Seraphim (spelt Serayhim?) and I think I can make out an "Agfa"... but the rest I'm having trouble with.


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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Rakesh
post Mar 29 2005, 04:43 PM
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"Agfa" is probably "Agla"
Zahaqiel's interruption: Yeah, that looks right

the distribution of names makes no sense at all, which is why I am guessing at an grimoirish origin (=mostly random shite put together by people with very little clue about spelling, hebrew or for that sake magic).

Then again, maybe I'm missing something...


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Pride_is_a_virtue
post Mar 29 2005, 07:45 PM
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An Article of interest regarding the kaosphere.
http://www.kiamagic.com/kia/kaosphere/cybermorphic.php


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HenrySpencer
post Mar 30 2005, 01:34 AM
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It was Peter Carroll who applied the Chaosphere to Chaos Magick but he did not invent it. In 1990 at an event called the Oxford Thelemic Symposium he mentioned that the idea of Chaos Magick was borrowed from the fantasy fiction of Michael Moorcock where there are characters called the Lords of Law and the Lords of Chaos. In Moorcock's 1971 book Queen of the Swords it says the following:
QUOTE
The Arms of Chaos - eight arrows radiating from a central hub, representing, according to Chaos, all the possibilities inherent in its philosophy.
Sounds like a description of the Chaosphere to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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Satarel
post Mar 30 2005, 02:01 AM
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That's odd... since Games Workshop has been using the star of chaos as a symbol in their line of products since at least the 80's.


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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HenrySpencer
post Mar 30 2005, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE(Zahaqiel @ Mar 30 2005, 03:01 AM)
That's odd... since Games Workshop has been using the star of chaos as a symbol in their line of products since at least the 80's.

If you are commenting on my post you seem to be misunderstanding it a little. Carroll mentioned the inspiration for Chaos Magick in that 1990 conference but he first wrote Liber Null in the 1970's where he discusses the Chaosphere but that was well after Michael Moorcock had already written about it. The first major influence on Chaos Magick in book form, besides the republishing of Austin Osman Spare's works at the same time, seems to have been Ramsey Dukes' SSOTBME which was first published in 1974. But that Chaosphere seems to have been lifted from Moorcock's stuff.


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Radiant Star
post Mar 30 2005, 02:58 AM
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Rakesh, I am not seeing your star picture as a chaos one so much as a circle with the placement of the god names and archangels as in an ordinary banishing/invoking ritual - it is a shame you cannot recall where it came from (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I must say I like it whatever it is and could slightly feel something when looking at it, if only we could read all of the names, the writing is small.

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HenrySpencer
post Mar 30 2005, 04:03 AM
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I personally don't think that the circle that Rakesh provided has anything whatsoever to do with the Chaosphere as it is clearly just a circle for evocation/invocation. The only circle that comes to mind that is similar to that one with the 8-pointed star in it is one that is found in the Necronomicon of George Hay and you can see it here.

For Chaos Magick purists it might be noted that Austin Osman Spare had a diagram that was similar to the Chaosphere and I have taken the trouble to scan it and stick it here for your inspection.
(IMG:http://img235.exs.cx/img235/1410/spare8points3sw.jpg)

This post has been edited by HenrySpencer: Mar 30 2005, 04:04 AM


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Rakesh
post Mar 30 2005, 08:50 AM
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There's an eight rayed star in it, so relevance is not out of question.

About the eight arrows coming from fantasy literature and being used in warhammer, that is not surprising...Carrol is famous for "borrowing" terms from fantasy (octarine...).

I will not pollute facts with my personal opinions but such proceeding is humorous at best (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)


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Satarel
post Mar 30 2005, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE
octarine

Yeah, we all know where that comes from. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

QUOTE
If you are commenting on my post you seem to be misunderstanding it a little. Carroll mentioned the inspiration for Chaos Magick in that 1990 conference but he first wrote Liber Null in the 1970's where he discusses the Chaosphere but that was well after Michael Moorcock had already written about it. The first major influence on Chaos Magick in book form, besides the republishing of Austin Osman Spare's works at the same time, seems to have been Ramsey Dukes' SSOTBME which was first published in 1974. But that Chaosphere seems to have been lifted from Moorcock's stuff.

Thank you kind sir. So the Star of Chaos then would be a relatively recent symbol?


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The value of an individual is not numerically assignable. Given the individual's infinite capacity to affect change (for better or for worse), it follows that their value is just as infinite. Logically then, not only are all individuals of equal value, but all possible combinations and groupings of individuals are of equal value, and finally, no matter an individual's past actions, their capacity to affect positive change is not diminished.

The value of the individual is sacrosanct, but actions must be directed in an effort to affect positive change.

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HenrySpencer
post Mar 30 2005, 01:54 PM
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Rakesh,
I was not trying to imply that the circle you provided was irrelevant so I apologize if it sounded that way. I just don't think it's a likely origin of the Chaosphere. The so-called "Law of Octaves" however has been around for quite some time so if we really want to trace origins we would have to find out who gave birth to that concept.
And yes Zahaqiel, I think it's fairly safe to say that the Chaosphere as we know it is probably no more than 35-40 years old. If someone can provide some evidence to the contrary I would be more than happy to admit my error as I think it would be interesting if it actually is an older symbol. Keep in mind that Chaos Magick seems to have always not placed much value on lineages and ancient origins so it's probably fitting that new symbols were created at it's inception to not have to bother.


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mediocracy
post Mar 31 2005, 12:32 PM
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My understanding is that the chaosphere/chaos star was indeed appropriated from the works of Moorcock and appeared in his 'Elric' fiction (an aspect of the Eternal Champion which runs through much of his work).

For those unfamilar with the works of Moorcock, rather than using the (rather worn) cliche of 'Good' and 'Evil' he instead created worlds under the sway of 'Law' and 'Chaos'. It should be possible to produce an interesting work relating the eight points of chaos magick to various incarnations of the Eternal Champion. My personal fave is Jerry Cornelius, though reading The Cornelius Quartet is apt to melt the brain of the reader (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

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post Mar 27 2006, 04:45 PM
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I first saw it in a Moorcock novel in the mid 70s too, and I read somewhere ages ago that Carroll lifted it from there.

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Aunt Clair
post Nov 8 2006, 08:29 AM
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From :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic

QUOTE
Chaos magic is a form of magic with which practitioners claim they can shape reality. Although there are a few techniques, such as some forms of sigil magic, associated uniquely with chaos magic, practitioners borrow liberally from other belief systems, so chaos magic acts as a metabelief. Some common sources and techniques include ceremonial magic, chaos theory, science fiction, OBEs, and divination. Chaos magic is not necessarily syncretic. That is to say, practitioners do not try to fit together these different ideas so that they make sense. Rather, they temporarily assume the truth of parts of particular systems in order to accomplish their goals. Although chaos magicians differ widely, they often sympathize with the psychonaut counterculture (Terence McKenna and Robert Anton Wilson are particularly influential) and chaotic aspects of particular religions (including Taoism and Discordianism), and a number of chaos magic techniques rely on humor and the absurd.





Spirit teachers reveal the star too , often authors , artists and musicians draw upon dreamstate visions and muse inspiration to bring esoteric wisdoms to humanity.

The 8 pointed star has been shown to us in circle many times in visions . From mystic visions I feel that
the 4 arrows represent the cardinal and bicardinal directions of energy
the cardinal ones represent predominantly male energy on a + also called a cross
these are the colour of elements
north air green
south earth red
right arm fire orange ; east Goddess west God
left arm water blue ; west Goddess east God

The bicardinal X is predominantly female energy on a x also called a crux
these are the colours of magick
purple l'eau de prima materia the universal solute ; shen
amber feu de prima materia the catalyst , the flame ;chi
pink energy force ching
aqua aqua vitae air and water the elixir , stasis ,universal solution , vocalisation

there are two sides of the wheel the shadow side and the light side
rose pink is blood for sex magick which can be light or dark tantra for example
red light is love , charisma , leadership , red shadow is strength , aggression , violence , war
etc.

1. i staff
2 + cross
3 / staves
4 x crux
5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/922.gif) kanda
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6 merkabah sphere

Imho , each energy centre from a kanda to a chakra to a stone develops in this manner .

Edit :
http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterThree/Sume...naki-Anakim.htm
star of Ishtar aka Ianna
It forms below the mirror on the energy body as the kanda becomes 3 D
Ianna like persephone descends to the land of the dead from light to shadow and back again
(IMG:http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterThree/Images/IshtarStarSymbol.gif)
This is an 8 pointed star though not the modern 8 arrowed symbol

This post has been edited by Aunt Clair: Nov 8 2006, 08:55 PM


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ClockKeeper
post Nov 8 2006, 05:28 PM
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Lots of interesting stuff on Chaos Magic on the wiki.

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Laguz
post Feb 21 2011, 10:16 AM
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The chaos star has its origins in Michael moorcocks multiverse, as the symbol of the Lords of Chaos to show the endless amount of possibilities that exist within chaos vs. the arrow of law, the straight path.

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