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DocHolliday
With all the bickering over terms (magic vs magick, high magic vs low magic, etc) why can't people simply use thaumaturgy and theurgy? Miracle-working and god-working. I mean really, how hard can it be?

//end pointless rant
A_Smoking_Fox
I think regardie uses the term theurgy in his books, when he means high magick.
But i think high magick can be a broader term than theurgy.
DocHolliday
QUOTE(A_Smoking_Fox @ Jul 10 2005, 05:48 PM)
I think regardie uses the term theurgy in his books, when he means high magick.
But i think high magick can be a broader term than theurgy.

I'm aware of this. The excessive labelling and distinctions are what I'm starting to find tiresome (and I'm not even all that active in the "magical community," as it were).

Try to look at it from the standpoint of Kabbalistic nomenclature. One either works toward practical results (thus Kabbalah Ma'asith) or towards contemplative (or enlightenment-oriented) results (thus Kabbalah Iyunith). This is the basic line of demarcation between miracle-working (thaumaturgy) and god-working (theurgy).
gavriel
i think is has more to do with the fact that not many people know what those terms mean. So for the sake of the ignorant among us, me included, we try to keep it as monosyllabic as possible.
bym
greetings!
There is a good book out there that illustrates and explains the two words here. "Real Magic" by Bonewits comes to mind.
DocHolliday
Don't mind me. I just have an aversion to the use of "magic" for what I do. Adding a "k" to the end just makes it worse.

Oh well, at least "magick" is usefull when performing a google search lol_2.gif
Praxis
I suspect that people do not use the terms thaumaturgy and theurgy because those words just don't sound cool.

One of the issues that I have come to grips with over the years is that many people become interested in topics, various practices, and use various terms based upon how cool they sound.

If more snazzier sounding words were chosen and used, I suspect that they would hook attention much faster.



Yeah, I know. It's sad.

But the sad part is not that it seems stupid to do. The sad part is that the vast majority of the time, the "make it sound cool" rule is most often true.



Some suggestions that I have for more cool sounding terms would be something like:

Dominaric Magick (instead of thaumaturgy). This suggests one who uses magick for dominating their environment. One who uses dominaric magick would be called a Dominar; and,

Kultanic Magick (instead of theurgy). This suggests one who uses magic for cultivating spiritual development (i.e. The Great Work). One who uses Kultanic magick would be called a Kultan.
bym
Innovative but lacking or even misconstruing the definitions. You're perhaps correct in your assessment though it would be better to use these terms (theurgy/thaumaturgy) often, to 'reintroduce' them into the language. *sigh* They are perfectly lovely words. (Like Gramarye) In my youth the now accepted 'word' "ain't" wasn't even in the dictionary (neither was quark, internet, etc.) Time changes all things. book.gif
Radiant Star
QUOTE(bym @ Mar 3 2006, 02:45 AM) *
Innovative but lacking or even misconstruing the definitions. You're perhaps correct in your assessment though it would be better to use these terms (theurgy/thaumaturgy) often, to 'reintroduce' them into the language. *sigh* They are perfectly lovely words. (Like Gramarye) In my youth the now accepted 'word' "ain't" wasn't even in the dictionary (neither was quark, internet, etc.) Time changes all things. book.gif


I use the word gramarye and have done since I started my magickal journalling but although I disliked adding the 'k' to magick, you soon realize it is the most useful spelling when online with other magickians; I did see that this spelling was used in former times too, so if that is correct, its not just a convenient Googleization. He he.
Praxis
I encountered an old friend today and brought this topic up in convo with him - and he suggested the following:

Thaumaturgy = miracle work
Theurgy = mystical work

And both of those (miracle and mystical work) are kinds of magickal work, albeit according to different ways.
bym
I like the definitions given in Bonewits book "Real Magic".
"Thaumaturgy: the use of magic for nonreligous purposes; the art and science of "wonder working"; using magic to actually change things on the Earth Plane." amd
"Theurgy: the use of magic for religous and/or psychotherapeutic purposes, in order to attain "salvation" or "personal evolution."

Gee whiz! almost exactly what you said! *grin*
Mikagon
Sorry for performing necromancy on this topic. Luckily, for those who are interested, two Adepts have decided to incarnate and decided to show others what True Theurgy, The Heart of Hermeticism is. Now they're holding online classes. If you are interested make sure you contact me so i can give out the necessary details. The reason, my friend, why they are not being talked about is because nobody actually knows in essence what Theurgy is, it's practical uses, what topics it covers, where its roots dwell and the likes. I have no intention of advertising my teachers, but merely showing people some directions.

Also, I was a forum lurker, i intend to post more from now on. hideingbhindcurtian.gif
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