Just wondering if these spirits are the same as the Qliphoth. I've been reading alot of posts about them and it got me wondering as to where they fit on the tree of life?
Another thing is that they seem to be among the easiest spirits to evoke. I have never done so nor do I desire too for they don't have what I want but, It seems when I even read about them ,of search for descriptions of them and sucessful evokations, I can hear them in the astral right on the fringes of my sphere, as if they are saying just call and we're here! Personally I don't think you could ever trust them?
:Lastly from those who have used them, don't they require "something" in return for their assistance such as a sacrifice or something else they want? And are'nt they only bent on the destruction of humans?

Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.

"Just wondering if these spirits are the same as the Qliphoth. I've been reading alot of posts about them and it got me wondering as to where they fit on the tree of life?"

Interesting point, although it largely depends on your point of view. The goetics IMHO, are a pick and mix of spirits, some are old Sumerian/babylon Gods etc. The only relation to planetary attributions are to the metals for their seals. They maybe be attributed to the tree of life more for their virtues/talents in more modern times, but this I believe was not the intention.

"Another thing is that they seem to be among the easiest spirits to evoke"

Not for me at the moment, although I am going strictly by the book. Angelic/enochian/olympic can be just as resposive. It largley depends how choose to evoke and work with them.

"don't think you could ever trust them?"

Remaining skeptical is a healthy attitude in some ways. Although I would say the same thing about other pantheons. There are measures in place triangle/curses that the spirit is bound to, to answer truthfully and carry out charges if all other conditions are met by the magician.

"don't they require "something" in return for their assistance such as a sacrifice or something"

Again this largely depends on your beliefs. LHP practitioners do I believe, feel more of a "repect", sometimes not using triangles/circles etc. Although there are a couple of spirits (kings) that routinely require offerings when evoking them. And others that will decieve the magician if he does. The incense that you burn when they appear is arguably an offering.

Loki

The "Qliphoth" subject tends to be shrouded in confusion and infested by wild speculation. In brief, they represent a world before the world, the original but imperfect creation of which only fragments remain. Their influence is generally considered negative.

Mixing occult systems clouds the subject further. Goetia was not apparently designed with any consideration for the Qliphoth, or vice vera. They are demons, idols, demigods... your placement of them on the Averse Tree is subject to your judgment. As there are 72 of them, one might be tempted to consider them to be somehow related to the Zodiac and its 72 divisions of day and night, but this makes a poor correlation to the planetary arrangement of the spirits. Crowley and the Ordo Aurum Solis have published lists of these correspondences, which are presented together in Godwin's encyclopedia.

Greetings!
The Goetia are NOT qlippoth! The World of Shells has many interesting currents of energy, some of which can be utilized in summoning the Goetics...but the Goetics are definitely NOT qlippothic. This does not mean that qlippothic energies cannot be utilzed by both you and/or the Goetics. Of course, there are those that will disagree. The cabalists of Judea offer discourse on the Shells and the resultant Gematria. In the later times Belial is listed as a Qlippoth, as well as Lilith and Asmoday/eus. The debate will rage for some time.

From my understanding...
(Forewarning : Have no experience with Goetia, this is comes from what I have read)

They are entities without an ordered house.
"Solomons Temple" seeming to be an attempt to build something for them

Thanks for your input; "Adverse tree" I always forget what to call it. So the Goetics are kind of like exiled spirits from a bunch of different "places". I always seem to be drawn to Astaroth. If I did do a Goetic Working He would be my focus. Do any of you belive the "ring of Solomon" is a must with Astaroth? I've been thinking about getting a home silver casting set and making the ring as shown in the key. I think it says, " Anapheneton & Michael" any thoughts on this??
Thanks Lightning

The ring is used apparently to protect the magician from "noisesome" or most probably "noxious" breath of Astaroth. I have one, although I'm working to the letter of the book. I don't know now if others use it in there goetic workings.Although the ring may only be needed if you attempt an evocation to physical appearance. Though I'd be very cautious with this spirit, especially if you've not done any evocations with the goetia. If you do begin, look at evocating spirits with "good/indifferent" natures initially. "Good" is rather a vague term though. The ring has also Tetragrammaton inscribed on it. I suggest you get a copy of the Joeseph Peterson book if you haven't got it already, its the most comprehensive, listing differences between Goetic codices.

Loki

Hi Loki,
Thanks again . Can you tell me where you obtained your ring? did you make it? it's called "the Ring of Solomon" right? I just wanted the to know the correct name so when I do searches for it I find the right one.Thanks

"Can you tell me where you obtained your ring? did you make it? it's called "the Ring of Solomon" right? I just wanted the to know the correct name so when I do searches for it I find the right one"

Hey, at the risk of going off topic, I suggest you get yourself a copy of the goetia, or lesser key of solomon. The peterson version is what I mainly use, but there's others. They have all the information on the required tools.

I bought my ring (sterling silver), and engraved the names on it myself. The names on the ring are Tetragrammaton, Anaphaxeton, and Michael. Also be very wary about buying this sort of item over the internet. I bought my ring from a jewellers, and then did the necessary work.

Regards Loki

I hope this clears things up for you.

Loki.

Thanks Loki, I had an image of the first; Anaphexton. But not the second w/the rings. I agree making it is the best way to go.

Loki would you agree that the Ring wouldn't be necessary if you are using the Triangle of art? As the God names are already constraining the spirit with it?

Personally I would think that Nec entities are more Qlippothic in nature .. The Goetia would fall more into or just under Malkuth..

Hi, I just wanted to post this excerp here as it is relevent to this thread. I kind of merged this into another thread; " Do you believe the(Goetic) spirits are?? " Getting back on track, I should've titled this thread; "origins of the GoeticPantheon" Lol
I tend to fly by the seat of my pants though..
Ok, Next Question;
How many of you belive the Goetic Spirits are the disembodied spirits of the Nephelim condemed to roam the earth until the final judgement?? If they are not in some way connected to the Qliphoth then this(nephelim) is the other alternative.
I have another thread addressing this entitled; "The Goetics; are they of the Qliphoth?" which I found something from the GD dicertation on the Qliphoth which I will post on that post since this doesn't seem to be where it should be.
IMO The more I learn of the Qliphoth; the Goetics at least to me seem to be of the same fabric, But if they are the remnants of the Nephelim that would explain why they "have no ordered house of their own in creation" This would be because they werenot created by God, but by the Watchers and their crew. SO being half angel and hald humanoid their flesh was destroyed in the Flood but their eternal angelic spirits survived. This makes more sense to me than being from "the shattered Kindom of the shells" which according to the GD's Lectres says this;;

"The Qlipphoth came into existance with the catastrphic event known as the breaking of the vessels; when the instability of the tree of life could not handle the devine light. Thus from an excess of energy the Qliphoth came into being.The broken vessels were still open to the proccesses of reconstruction, but their shells which were the equivalent of waste by products were not affected.
It was in this manner that the Qlipphoth in their most strict definition as the forces of corruption and evil began- (as Gods Garbage heap)"._ Golden Dawns Knowledge lectures. I didn't write the whole page just this excerp.
Or the other alternative is that the Goetics are the spirit remnents of the "Nephelim"(Giants in Genesis 3): which were destroyed in the flood (their flesh) but their eternal angelic spirits live on condemed to roam the earth until the final judgement.
What do you think??