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Mchawi

Yeah, this should be over "there" but no one will pay it any mind if it is so I've given the mods a bit of work to do and put it "here" bigwink.gif

Question is basic, how do you ascribe planetary correspondences to plants? The world is full of them and sadly, they're not all listed. In certain countries theres a wealth of knowledge regarding them but they're not so much given toward the planets, in these cultures people are told by incarnate spirits which and what to use and where but this is obviously a selective thing, unless you're chosen to do that kind of work you're not likely to come across an entity willing to go through a list informing you of which and what... suppose ones HGA would perhaps help, or if one were that way inclined evoking various spirits would also do the trick but these ways aren't so *viable* as it were... perhaps working *upside down* would work, knowing what benefits said plants have then cross relating that with a planetary force and so on, in general I'm inquisitive as to how this information is obtained, especially as not all books give the same information.

Any ideas?

Peace
/M/
LŎ!
I actually find myself within this same set of questions, I'm still trying to discover what the difference between the Philosopher's Mercury and the quick mercury indicates. All I know is that one is fixed and can't be perfected any further and the other volatile. This must indicate that one is of a fiery nature and the other watery, thus I think it has to do with the Calcination of Luna by means of Sol. But I'm still in the process of searching for these answers.

When it comes to assigning the plants with the correspondances of the planets, you would have to do a quite a bit of lucid study within the realms of Alchemy and Spagyrics,
I'll give you a piece of my best knowledge, the planet that I've been most familiar and attached with my entire life has been Saturn, and I know that Saturn is attributed to the physical body, and of roots, the mandrake root having more of the influence from Saturn than the others, also Saturn has refining effects upon Sol and Luna, and Sol and Luna without Saturn is incapable of transmutation, and Saturn without Sol and Luna is totally incapable of producing life. Saturn is also known as being the guardian of the Mysteries, and he is the Sower and Reaper of the vessels, he is usually attributed to dead things but is capable of harboring life, He is the punisher of those who abuse Sacred Knowledge, who weeds out the falsities, guards the Inner Temple, and he destroys wrong-doers in the fashion resembling very slowly breaking them down into ashes, so He is capable of bestowing both Vivification and Putrefaction. His images are usually depicted as being the skull and sickle, the metal that is attributed to him is Lead, and also all animals, according to Agrippa's Occult Philosophy, that eat their own young, that are gloomy, earthy, black. He also states, and I totally agree with him on this subject, that all flowers and herbs that are black in color are attributed to Saturn. Thus Nightshade, which grows in many places especially near rotting wood, having a small black berry, is one of those attributed to Saturn. Also those having a bulbous root have some evidence of influence from Saturn.

Hope I helped a little, terribly sorry about my lack of knowledge.
Vagrant Dreamer
Don't forget that the alchemists were not just readers of books and recipe followers as many 'alchemists' today are. They learned the herb lore, they were doctors and physicians of their times, and for them the correspondence was the end result of study and application, not the beginning. Alchemy is a real science, and cannot really be divorced from the work proper. The inner alchemy is carried out in the process of learning and experiencing outer alchemy. This is one expression of the, "That which is above is like that which is below..." saying.

If you want to understand the connection between the plants and the elements, planets, etc., then consider firstly what the plant is good for. How does it interact with the body? Understanding of both astrology in terms of what signs the planets are strong or weak in, and comparing this to where a particular plant has a positive or negative effect on the body, reveals the association between the plant and the planet/zodiac.

So, the moon rules the digestive system - plants which are beneficial to the digestive system might be associated with the moon; plants which put 'fire' in the digestive system might be attributed mars (inflammatory effects), etc. There is nothing more esoteric about it than knowledge of herb lore and natural medicine.

With stones it gets a little more complex because of the variations across cultures as to what stone is good for what ailment, most cultures have them though. However, planet alchemy is the beginning place for most people.

Philosophical mercury along the lines of 'salt, sulpher, mercury' and represents the physical substances on one level - the pure salts or the calcined plant matter; the essential oil; and the natural alcohol of the plant. The alcahol is universal, and is often distilled from red wine, then subsequently purified through a process of evaporation and condensation. This is the philosopher's mercury, and it's a different substance for each kingdom but it is always universal, whereas the essential salts and the essential oils are unique to each type of plant.

Fixed mercury is a different story and is a specific substance in some cases, actual mercury and molten sulfer; however it can also refer to the process of fixing the philosophical mercury as well.

peace
LŎ!
QUOTE(Vagrant Dreamer @ Sep 20 2011, 04:34 PM) *

Don't forget that the alchemists were not just readers of books and recipe followers as many 'alchemists' today are. They learned the herb lore, they were doctors and physicians of their times, and for them the correspondence was the end result of study and application, not the beginning. Alchemy is a real science, and cannot really be divorced from the work proper. The inner alchemy is carried out in the process of learning and experiencing outer alchemy. This is one expression of the, "That which is above is like that which is below..." saying.

If you want to understand the connection between the plants and the elements, planets, etc., then consider firstly what the plant is good for. How does it interact with the body? Understanding of both astrology in terms of what signs the planets are strong or weak in, and comparing this to where a particular plant has a positive or negative effect on the body, reveals the association between the plant and the planet/zodiac.

So, the moon rules the digestive system - plants which are beneficial to the digestive system might be associated with the moon; plants which put 'fire' in the digestive system might be attributed mars (inflammatory effects), etc. There is nothing more esoteric about it than knowledge of herb lore and natural medicine.

With stones it gets a little more complex because of the variations across cultures as to what stone is good for what ailment, most cultures have them though. However, planet alchemy is the beginning place for most people.

Philosophical mercury along the lines of 'salt, sulpher, mercury' and represents the physical substances on one level - the pure salts or the calcined plant matter; the essential oil; and the natural alcohol of the plant. The alcahol is universal, and is often distilled from red wine, then subsequently purified through a process of evaporation and condensation. This is the philosopher's mercury, and it's a different substance for each kingdom but it is always universal, whereas the essential salts and the essential oils are unique to each type of plant.

Fixed mercury is a different story and is a specific substance in some cases, actual mercury and molten sulfer; however it can also refer to the process of fixing the philosophical mercury as well.

peace


Yes, I understand your opinion, about there being nothing too far esoteric about the correspondances of the Celestial bodies, but it should be understood that I understand it to play a large part in the "Mosaic Art". In which, in the skill acquired through preliminary mysticism, and after having an idea of the empty shells, their primal nature, and injecting your profound knowledge of immoveable natures therein, for example, Kether being attributed to concealed brilliance, etc. having set up this dry tree, one should study those things that are visible, the natures and effects of every part of nature, either in the immediate environment of the Magician, or on a wide scale, and injecting those shells with the other invisible natures found through the skill in Art, for the sake to awaken the power of the Imagination, so that the Knowledge of the Magician reaches far and wide, those images he produces are that much capable of joy, for he has constructed his knowledge of the invisible Conduits of God, and thus conducts his strange observations, this is when you start to see the Magician creating strange contraptions, and having them work in the most profound ways, this is an ecstasy.

And about the Mercury, for instance, I'll quote Paracelsus from his Archidoxes (an INCREDIBLE work, in my opinion, although I don't understand all of it.)

"Whoever wishes to have a tincture of the metals, must take Philosopher's Mercury, and project it to its own end; that is, from the quick mercury from whence it proceeded. Hence will ensue that the Philosopher's Mercury will be dissolved in the quick mercury, and shall receive its strength, so that the Philosophers' Mercury shall kill the quick mercury and render it fixed in the fire like itself."
Goibniu
Culpeper was writing about planetary correspondences of the different plants and herbs around Elizabethan times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Culpeper
His book is available online in various forms if you aren't aware of him. http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/66/113/frameset.html

There are certainly established correspondences, but I know that my friends who are into herbalism (something that I am not) say that they sometimes disagree with the traditional planetary correspondence, and change it for their personal use.
Mchawi

Hmmm... have noticed a few discrepancies in various books, thing is in some places herbal lore has been lost or underdeveloped with war and poverty, unless you go to what few sources there are that remain or have an inherent (literally, going by way of certain traditions and ancestry) connection you would be hard pressed to find the purpose and uses of herbs/minerals and so on. Not to be or sound selfish here but in my country and culture there would be a wide knowledge of such things but as said, much has been lost over time, in taking up alchemy I've wondered about gathering a list of herbs and so on native to other regions that can well be used in experiments....

Read a book giving info on a text ascribed by Toth stating that 'things can be known by their measurements' and found this interesting, it then goes into a diagram showing circles (from my knowledge) and a brief but no doubt uncertain way of going about, 'knowing of things by their parts' in that one can find the number of a thing in order to find its relation to others... vibrational rates would also do well at this I suppose. Otherwise run the risk of 'contamination' in regards to accepting that a herb/mineral does a test subjects bowels well while it may well be detrimental to another with a slightly different disposition... universality has to be assured of in these things.... this is the occult world after all.
Vagrant Dreamer
QUOTE(Mchawi @ Sep 24 2011, 01:19 PM) *

Hmmm... have noticed a few discrepancies in various books, thing is in some places herbal lore has been lost or underdeveloped with war and poverty, unless you go to what few sources there are that remain or have an inherent (literally, going by way of certain traditions and ancestry) connection you would be hard pressed to find the purpose and uses of herbs/minerals and so on. Not to be or sound selfish here but in my country and culture there would be a wide knowledge of such things but as said, much has been lost over time, in taking up alchemy I've wondered about gathering a list of herbs and so on native to other regions that can well be used in experiments....

Read a book giving info on a text ascribed by Toth stating that 'things can be known by their measurements' and found this interesting, it then goes into a diagram showing circles (from my knowledge) and a brief but no doubt uncertain way of going about, 'knowing of things by their parts' in that one can find the number of a thing in order to find its relation to others... vibrational rates would also do well at this I suppose. Otherwise run the risk of 'contamination' in regards to accepting that a herb/mineral does a test subjects bowels well while it may well be detrimental to another with a slightly different disposition... universality has to be assured of in these things.... this is the occult world after all.


What is the nature of a person? Do we ascribe ourselves to a mercurial disposition? Or Saturnine? Martian? No thing which develops in this world can be subject to a singular influence, or carry only a singular influence. Of plants it is said that the "Roots are ascribed to saturn, the stalk to mercury, the flower to the sun" etc., because as we know there are different compounds present in each of those part of the plant, as well as the seeds, the stamens, the pollen and the nectar.

The correspondence between plants and the planets is an old one, as with other such correspondences, but do consider that the discrepancies may be cultural... not every culture ascribes the same qualities to the planets, although there are running themes no doubt. Coming to a thorough conclusion as to the nature of any thing implies that there is a thorough conclusion to be reached. But each things partakes of all of the influences available to it.

The assignment of planetary influences to plants takes into account what effects it is known to have on the body (this information is readily available, on just about any plant you are likely to encounter unless you are exploring highly specialized regions which have self-contained eco-systems supporting specific rare species), the conditions of it's growth and fruition - how it gestates, does it travel, burrow? Must it grow from frozen ground? Does it require some combination of hot/cool wet/dry, or temperate influences? Does it grow deep roots, or shallow? Does it travel easily? Does it spread quickly and live a short life, or does it spread perhaps not at all but live for centuries? I admit I was short before when I said specifically a plant's medicinal qualities, this was the utility of a plant to the average alchemist of the time - alchemy doesn't write a paycheck in and of itself, and never has. Well, these days you could write a book...

Anyway, the entirety of the nature of a plant must be examined. It's scientific and philosophical, alchemy is a natural philosophy. Instead of looking for a plant ascribed to saturn, for instance, why not pick one local plant, and then research everything you can on it's nature? You can try cultivating it on your own, noting it's habits, how much sun it requires to thrive, and while doing this gain a broader understanding of planetary qualities and begin creating your own system of understanding. You might be surprised to find that your research becomes a kind of inner alchemy. And, if while doing this you are able to cross reference with other sources over time to discover any confirmation presented through other sources.

Discovering these things for yourself, especially when it comes to living beings like plants and their associated alchemical processes, can be a much more rewarding endeavor than digging through books and waiting for the information to resurface somewhere.

peace
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