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Posted by: nox Apr 27 2007, 02:36 PM

Howdy,

I have never worked with enochian. And today I understood that I have been missing out seriously, as I watched a documentary on TV where they mentioned that Dee and Kelley were instructed by the angels about how to start the apocalypse!

This is something I have been longing for!

My understanding is that the key is inside the enochian system.

Ok, now a tad bit more serious:

I am a reasonably experienced occultist. I wish to get started with enochian. I do not suppose this should present any problems since I have a couple of books in my reference library containing calls etc. However what I am most interested in is EXACTLY THE APOCALYPSE. However I know little about the relationship between enochian and the apocalypse. Where can I find information about this specific subject?


Thank you
Nox

Posted by: redhand Apr 27 2007, 05:15 PM

Enochian Magic for Beginners by Donald Tyson. Drawing information from rare material, Tyson makes Enochian magic available to any practitioner without oversimplifying the information. Besides traditional material, Tyson includes several innovations that will help advance the system for decades to come. Also looking at the Enochian material in a new way is The Angel’s Message to Humanity by the Schuelers. A must have is:The Complete Enochian Dictionary: A Dictionary of the Angelic Language as Revealed to Dr. John Dee and Edward Kelley, by Donald Laycock.

Dee's Book of Enoch, and the "Apocalypse of St. John" would be a good place to start for Enochian Magick and the Apocalypse information. There are two major threads of thought in Christian millennialism. One thread, called postmillennialism, is largely Utopian in nature. It sees the millennium as the beginning of a period of gradual perfection of conditions on Earth; the basic principle is that the world must be brought to perfection and the City of God built on Earth before the Christ will return, and it is only after the Christ returns that the world will end. Two decades after Dee, this form of millennialism was the driving force behind the religious groups spearheading the English colonization of America. Dee's own thought contains many post-mil ideals; in seeking out the Enochian magick, one of his goals was to gain a means of bringing earthly governments and societies into line with the design of God, thereby bringing the return of Christ closer.

The other thread, called premillennialism, is the more catastrophic variety. In this version, the typical scenario is that the Christ returns, and then the current "evil" societies of mankind will be destroyed in worldwide disasters, while the elect are preserved from harm. After the world is destroyed, the Christ joins with the faithful in a City built by God to rule over the Earth for a thousand years.

While there is a strong millennialist flavor to the angels' pronouncements, they are almost uniformly of the postmillennialist variety. The angels divided the world into four ages. The first of these began with the creation and ended with the Flood; the second ended with the first appearance of the Christ. The revelation of Liber Loagaeth ended the third age and ushered in the final age, in which the world would be brought to perfection prior to the return of the Christ.

The Calls and Tablets were in turn intended to be one means by which this perfection could be brought about. One particular passage establishes this clearly.

On February 11, 1584, Dee & company had arrived at the Polish manor of Albert Laskie, and had time to settle for a few days and do some magickal work. This day was the first operation of a new series of works after the hiatus. And during the work, the spirit Nalvage appeared for the first time to introduce himself and state his purpose.

The session begins with a colloquy in Latin between an evil spirit that settles by Kelly's left shoulder, and a good spirit that settles by his right shoulder. After some discussion the dexter spirit banishes the sinister. He spends a couple of paragraphs praising the Doctrine to be revealed, then says:

Nalvage:

"These [are] latter days, and the end of harvest must have also Labourers: For no Age passeth away, but through the hands of God, who makest the end of his doings known to the World: To the end, [that] the World may consent unto him in Glory. So that this Doctrine, is the mysteries of the word of God, sealed from the beginning, now delivered unto man, for that Reformation which must be in one Unity established unto the end. [emphasized in original] The very part of that Circle, which comprehendeth the Mysteries of the Highest, in his Prophets, Apostles, and Ministers yet to come, which are alive and shall bear witness of eternal comfort.

"The fruit of our doctrine is, that God should be praised. For of ourselves we seek no glory: But we serve you to your comfort, teaching you the will of God, in the self same Christ, that was crucified; sold and died in the Patriarchs, and published to the World by his Disciples, and is now taught to you, in the remission of sins... greatest in the world, for the end of all things. The very key and entrance into the secret mysteries of God, (in respect to his determination on earth) bringing with it reward in the end of eternal glory, which is the greatest Treasure."


Nalvage:

"These things are your parts, and portions sealed, as well by your own knowledge, as the fruit of your intercession, The Knowledge of Gods Creatures.

"Unto me are delivered five parts [i.e., months] of time: Wherein I will open, teach, and uncover the secrets of that speech, that holy mysterie. To the intent the CABALA of NATURE, in voyce, substance of bodie, and measure in all parts may be known. For there is nothing secret, but it shall be revealed, and the Son of GOD shall be known in POWER, and establish a Kingdom with righteousness in the earth, and then cometh the end.

"For the earth must come under subjection, and must be made pure. That death may be swallowed in his own Kingdom, and the enemy of righteousness find no habitation. The word of God endureth forever. His promises are just. His spirit is truth. His judgements inscrutable. Himself universal. He it is of whom you labour. The promises of God in this earthly noble man shall be fulfilled. Salomon used the places of honor, and was exalted."

While not so clear as later speech from this source, nonetheless some things are apparent. Nalvage is a postmillennialist. That is, he holds that the world must be brought to a state of perfection and holiness before the Christ can return; the City of God must be established by man, and then the end comes. The Calls and Tablets (which he begins to deliver two months later) are the tool by which this perfection of the Earth and mankind can be brought about.

Posted by: nox Apr 28 2007, 02:15 PM

Thank you Redhand for a very informative post.


Anyway I have started slowly by ordering the Tyson book.

The Apocalypse of John - I take it you are referring to the last of the .

You mention Dee's book of enoch ... what is this, is this a special translation made by Dee of the book of enoch, or did Dee write a book with that title?

The quotes from Nalvage - are they from the Schuelers' book, or from where?

I am sorry to read that according to Nalvage the work with the tablets and calls is a work of the postmillenianism variety. I would much prefer the premillenianism version of the apocalypse. Maybe that makes me a bad person

I read a review of Schuelers' book where someone blamed it for causing their schizophrenia. Sad. While it is one of our occupational hazards I am always sorry to hear when it gets one of us. Now, anyway, according to this review the work with the enochian system consisted of opening the portals for evil beings to enter our world ... now, my question becomes I suppose: this sounds more like premillenianism to me ... is Nalvage only presenting one point of view? Or is there a some kind of explanation for this paradox (if it is such)?

Thank you
Noxlux

edit: ordered a copy of the Schuelers' book as well. sounded interesting.

Posted by: redhand Apr 28 2007, 05:55 PM

The current Book of Enoch was discovered in Greek and Ethiopian. Donald Laycock suggests that it is entirely possible that Dee had a copy of this manuscript and could not translate it so he invented his own language based loosely upon it. Dee and Kelley were not however the first persons to come up with an Enochian alphabet, a text on alchemy called the 'Voarchadumia' by Pantheus which was written in 1530 printed an eighteen character alphabet attributed to Enoch. As it turns out the British Museum copy of this manuscript has copious marginal notes by none other than Dr. John Dee. The notes date from 1559 and although the twenty-one character alphabet of Dee does not resemble Pantheus' alphabet it is conceivable that he at least got the Idea from that text. What the characters do resemble slightly are the letters of the Ethiopian alphabet.

I don't think the Schueler's book had anything to do with causing their schizophrenia.lol I don't think they should have been playing with this type of thing to begin with. Or they are just trying to steer people away from enlightenmet!

Posted by: Zugzwang May 3 2007, 10:36 AM

redhand has not provided any information to you on this, so here's some info. -

Dee's book of enoch doesn't have a actual english translation seeing as his 'book' is composed of large grids of letters and numbers -

Dee's book of enoch is a series of large grids which the angelic tablets (according to some) amongst other things were extracted from. I have only found one copy of one of the pages so it's a lost cause trying to search for them online - I've been meaning to contact the library of london's manuscript department to book out the actual mss. to get photocopies myself, as I don't live that far away, but I've been putting it off. I do not know of any available books that have these tables, there's a few books apparently detailing how the the necronomicon was extracted from these tablets but I do not know, again, which book(s) to find that in or if they even have complete versions of these tables.

Here's part of one of the originals written by Dee, this is all I've got -


This has also been brought up in another thread by Smasher666 in this subforum who also thought the book of enoch and dee's book of enoch were one and the same, they aren't.

Posted by: redhand May 3 2007, 06:17 PM

I didn't imply that they were!
It is a shame that so much of Dee's and Kelly's work has been lost or destroyed!

Posted by: Helmut May 5 2007, 02:06 PM

Not to put a damper on the proceedings here, but I'm curious.

Why exactly would you want to start the Apocalypse? Sure, there's always the theory that people are wicked. However, the world has always had wicked people and all of those theologians and philosophers who say they will destroy society have turned out to be overexaggerated.

Now, I totally support your wish to grow in magick and learn, but do put large consideration in trying to cause such an event to happen. It would be a silly thing to do.

Posted by: nox May 7 2007, 11:03 AM

Helmut,

you have to take your pick:

1) A girl turned me down for the prom.

x) I am a servant of cthlvhv and believe that John was basically writing propaganda with a totally skewed set of predictions.

2) I am fun damented x-tian longing for this to happen and for the thousand year reich which will follow

z) I am not really interested in really causing the sort of planetary collapse generally assumed to be associated with the apocalypse, but I am very interested in exploring how close to this I can get without actually going over the edge. Lets just hope I do not inadvertently
start the apocalwh

3) The confusion of the planes is the biggest danger in magick, as uncle al used to say.



I have read half of Tysons book now. It seems very good to me. I have not started any operations yet.


zugzwang I have seen many more scans of a similar sort - presumably from the same bm mss - i got them from some obscure place of the internet, but had a big hd crash. I will search for them again.


All the best
nox

Posted by: Helmut May 7 2007, 05:26 PM

Haha! Good answer, mate. However, I'm called by the Supreme Being to stop all those who would upset the natural balance, so we might fight someday. Good luck.

Posted by: Zugzwang May 8 2007, 01:08 PM

Hang on - I do have another page of it here, from a later copy transliterated into English letters -

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/fd21c7ee.gif
Click for bigger pic.

Maybe there's more knocking around on this HD.

Assuming Enochia can be used to start the apocalypse I don't see why it hasn't happened already - all you would need to be is a mathematical genius or have access to the same types of programs people use to search the torah/bible for codes - to work out the overall pattern to Dee's Book of Enoch. Wouldn�t it be easier for you to create your own branch of magic to destory the world with, rather than dealing with all the hassle of the Enochian system?!

Posted by: Ashnook May 8 2007, 04:53 PM

Posted by: nox May 9 2007, 03:55 PM

Well, you don't know this yet my supreme being can eat your daddy for breakfast, oreven your supreme being, I am mean my Supreme being fell to sleep by bordom when your supreme being picked a fight the last time, sow, hat ist her purpose behind proposing the idea of a future conflict and how many other ways can u achieve that purpose. Nevor provoke someone who has ever had anything to do with the c23

Back 2 business

I am starting to be more and more filled with awe in front of this system. I have only just started with actually using the Schueler book. It is pretty amazing - have spent most of this afternoon as under the influence of some mild drug. Interestingly a friend noted that I was somehow "different".

I have a slight question. Though I really enjoy the Schueler approach because it is step by step and because I do sense, even at this early stage a certain strong correspondence between the yoga they are talking about and the enochian I am a bit surprised by the evocation of the sexual currents.

How shall I put this? The enochian system seems strong enough by itself not to need any fueling. - Or am I mistaken and the sexual current is actually awakened by the enochian even when one approaches it from a purist perspective?

I am anyhow very pleased with the two books you recommended Redhand (and which I already bought).

Zugzwang - I think I want to bring about the apocalypse specifically by using enochian system because I have the sense this places me in the strong tradition that runs from the OT prophets via John Dee and further on now through me :-)
But I shan't be to picky - If this one don't work my master will be the end :-=

Howdy Ashnook, nice to meet you in another section. I didn't know you had any interest in Enochiana.

Signing off
N

Posted by: WitchFox Apr 1 2022, 09:42 AM

Posted by: WitchFox Apr 1 2022, 09:48 AM

I will let you start an apocalypse over #1.


Also, I am new here, and haven't used a forum since 2006, and since I destroyed all my social media I decided how much I missed being in a forum of my interests and sharing with like minded individuals, and am now wanting to embrace more towards Enochian Calls.
Excuse my quote. I was trying to reply. HA.

Oh dear.
HELL O!!