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 Belial, looking for other experiences with the demon
orpheus
post May 17 2007, 03:06 AM
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Hi everubody,

I've already worked with Amon and Sitry and now I'm planning to work and built a relationship with Belial. Si I'm here cause I would like to know if any of you have already worked with him. I've read that his power is far more important than the one that is told in the goetia (merley political and wealth)....

Thanks again for sharing your experiences

Orpheus

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AncientOne
post May 17 2007, 12:14 PM
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Be careful with Belial he is very very powerful.And he is not easy to deal with.If you are not a satanist or lhp I suggest not using him too much.

This post has been edited by Ra Hoor Khuit: May 17 2007, 12:15 PM

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orpheus
post May 17 2007, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE(Ra Hoor Khuit @ May 17 2007, 01:14 PM) *
Be careful with Belial he is very very powerful.And he is not easy to deal with.If you are not a satanist or lhp I suggest not using him too much.



Thanks a lot but don't be worried. I'm a dedicated spiritual satanist and quite used with LHP pratices

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kouya
post May 18 2007, 10:25 AM
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Greetings Orpheus, I work with Belial quite often... usually once or twice a week and he's mighty pleasant for the most part. A little like an "old man" at times to me, but nonetheless a fine being. He's prudent with humans and has quite the insight and reach into many things, so you may usually find literally anything you need from him, except if he needs more attention elsewhere on some busier moments.

And its kind of strange to see a spiritual satanist here (always found that most kept to their circles), I was one for some time as well though I later became what they would call an "associate", going on my own ways but still in touch with all of them.

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Jaguar
post Jun 21 2007, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE(orpheus @ May 17 2007, 02:39 PM) *
Thanks a lot but don't be worried. I'm a dedicated spiritual satanist and quite used with LHP pratices
Belial is alright but evocating Valac and Andromalius and generally much more fruitful & beneficial than Belial.

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Kranos
post Jun 21 2007, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE(orpheus @ May 17 2007, 02:06 AM) *
Hi everubody,

I've already worked with Amon and Sitry and now I'm planning to work and built a relationship with Belial. Si I'm here cause I would like to know if any of you have already worked with him. I've read that his power is far more important than the one that is told in the goetia (merley political and wealth)....

Thanks again for sharing your experiences

Orpheus


If you have built up relationships with demons and are a spiritual satanist, the maybe you would be interested in Demonolatry. You can find a couple good books on it at amazon.com; like The Complete Book of Demonolatry.

In the demonolatrist tradition, which is very similar to theistic satanism, Belial is the principle demon of the element earth. He generally controls wealth, steadyness, courage, steadfastedness, ect. and all earthly things.

In fact, I quote for you his description:

"Belial appears with hair colored black and white like pepper (some people report hair as blonde). His eyes shift from brown to green. His voice comes off as being quite normal, though he speaks with resolute confidence in everything he says. He often seems perplexed or confused by some great mystery. He is not as tall as some of the other elementals." pg. 71 of S. Connolly's The Complete Book Of Demonolatry

I believe you would enjoy the book quite a lot; that and The Complete Book Of Demonolatry Magic. The sigils in there are different than almost any others you will find. They tend to work incredibly well and, most importantly, you aren't forcing a demon to manifest. You are just asking it to. To me, it is the difference between asking for a friend to give you a lift home and forcing yourself in their car; the latter tends to tick them off more.


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orpheus
post Jul 1 2007, 11:40 AM
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Thanks a lot for all your replies. Concerning demonolatry yes I know it and it seems great. I use a lot the enns. But what do you think of their sigils ?? Do find them more useful and powerful than the ones of the goetia ??


Thanks :-)

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bym
post Jul 1 2007, 02:32 PM
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Just a quick note here in comment to all you Demonolaters....Although your books classify Belial as ruling the element of Earth...HE IS NOT, repeat, NOT an elemental! Please take note of this! Misinformation is spread from a myriad of sources...some of the current books on Demonalatry reflect some gross errors in this regard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)


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Kranos
post Jul 1 2007, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE(orpheus @ Jul 1 2007, 10:40 AM) *
Thanks a lot for all your replies. Concerning demonolatry yes I know it and it seems great. I use a lot the enns. But what do you think of their sigils ?? Do find them more useful and powerful than the ones of the goetia ??
Thanks :-)


I find their sigils to be just as useful as, if not more, the Goetic Sigils.


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Kranos
post Jul 1 2007, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE(bym @ Jul 1 2007, 01:32 PM) *
Just a quick note here in comment to all you Demonolaters....Although your books classify Belial as ruling the element of Earth...HE IS NOT, repeat, NOT an elemental! Please take note of this! Misinformation is spread from a myriad of sources...some of the current books on Demonalatry reflect some gross errors in this regard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)


I'm sorry to tell you but, it kinda has to do with your own subjective views. If you work with Belial as an elemental, then he acts that way. If you work with him as a demon, he works that way. If you work with him as the demon elemental of earth, then that is how he acts. Everything, in this respect, is subjective. I can work with an Angel, but, with my views and such, I would be working with what others would consider the "demonic" side of an Angel. The same thing goes for other people.

In this respect, truly, you seem to be wrong. You saying he isn't an elemental is like me saying that Gabriel isn't an angel. All it is is point of view. You may say that we are confusing people, but, in all honesty we are just sharing our opinions, as are you. If someone sees one of the posts and decided to use the new elemental they heard of, Belial, they will probably go and look it up. If they are discouraged by the fact that others consider him a 'demon,' then they won't treat him as such. No harm, no foul.

Also, what makes you think he isn't an elemental? Have you ever treated him as such? I mean, sure, the grimoires refer to him as a demon of lies ( as they refer to most), but don't they also say that Astaroth is a male demon? The same Ataroth that has and still is worshipped as Astarte, a goddess of fertility?


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bym
post Jul 1 2007, 08:53 PM
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Greetings!
Aaah, the Newage approach to spiritism. Astarte is female, or represents an energy current that is feminine in nature. Astaroth, though, is male or more closer to the mark, an it. He/it is a derivation of the original Astarte but is definately not the same animal. Consider aspects of dieties. Consider centuries of belief (no matter how true or not) but Astaroth is now a separate aspect of Astarte. Astaroth is not worshipped as a fertility diety. Astarte is.

Belial has never, ever been an elemental. An elemental is a semi-sentient representative of the basic building blocks of nature. Belial has more than one element within his makeup as do you and most other complex beings. Elementals are very, very basic. The idea that Belial as ruler of the element Earth and Earth elementals stems from the Christian referencing of Belial as being the 'Devil' and thus, the Father of Lies, who is also known as the Master/Ruler of the Earth. Even if you take this at face value, it still doesn't make this spirit an elemental...merely in command of such. The old Xtians also looked upon old fertility dieties/spirits as 'dirty' or of 'the Earth'. Lumping all such spirits together with true elementals. Tragic. A good cross section is the comparing of the Egyptian neteru and their historic/actual timelines. Osiris was originally a flood/fertility god not Lord of the Dead (which was Anubis's reign) but, over years and political machination he became the god of the Dead and Anubis became the son of Isis and Set. Gee....Cheney now declares that he is no longer part of the Executive branch of US government! History in the Making!

You are entitled to your happy views and more power to you. I've been practicing elemental and Solomonic magic for decades now and, from my own (subjective) experiences, have found that true elementals do not give familiars nor speak of the arts and sciences of man but , rather, are far more concerned with their own element...exclusively. Those elementals that are brought into contact with Man are corrupted eventually and usually end tragically...something to think upon, surely! We are looked upon as 'devils' to those elementals who are disrupted into service.

Belial has more in common with Gabriel than with being an elemental. It would be like me saying that Gabriel was a water elemental, Uriel an earth eleemental, Raphael being an air elemental or Michael being a fire elemental. Spiritual beings may have stronger or weaker affinities to any one, two or more elements but that doesn't mean that they are elementals! You, supposedly, have or are made up of 5 different elements....just what does that mean? Perhaps the clue is in the fallacious concept that spirit is an actual element. No, you'll find that Belial is made up of a number of elements and is imbued with spirit. Spiritual beings that are made up of more than one/two elements are called something else (Devas, angels, demons, daemons, spirits, etc. ad nauseum)

I hope that you will please try to contact the elemental kingdoms. Ask most magicians here who are versed in evocation what they have dealt with in regards to elementals. Paracelsus wrote an interesting book called the Archidoxes of Magic that will be of interest to you.

The name Belial is supposedly derived from the term 'worthless of God' and other rather unflattering remarks. But if you go about using the Newage defense...subjectively, the term Belial has been associated with some fairly horrendous behavior, which, in turn, by the multitudes that believe, makes Belial exactly what they say he is...
To me, he is a negative spirit that will tell you anything to further his own aims. You may (or not) believe what you will. It still doesn't make him associated wholly with the element earth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sport_boxing.gif)


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Shaitan
post Aug 1 2007, 07:05 PM
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Well, I think I may probably be replying to this far too late and I'm not sure if this is anything new to anyone, but Waite remarks in his Mysteries of Goetic Theurgy that Belial "...must have offerings and sacrifices made to him", to which he then adds "*He is partly of the Order of the Virtues and partly of that of the Angels. Unless he be constrained by Divine Power, he will not remain one hour in the truth. He was one of the vast cohort shut up by Solomon in a brazen vessel and released subsequently by the Babylonian."

Also, with regards to the remark that he is closer to Gabriel than an elemental, Waite also outlines all his various attributes, saying that he is "a mighty king, created next after Lucifer.../... he fell first amongst the superior angels who went before Michael and other heavenly Angels".

I hope this helps.

This post has been edited by Shaitan: Aug 1 2007, 07:06 PM


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Jaguar
post Nov 8 2007, 08:51 PM
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So have you worked with Belial yet?

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Imperial Arts
post Nov 9 2007, 02:02 AM
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The name Belial is supposedly derived from the term 'worthless of God' and other rather unflattering remarks.

Beli-yaal or BLY YOL is "Without Worth" in Hebrew. In the Bible it is referenced (I forget where, maybe Numbers?) in relation to the "sons and daughters of Belial." It might be of interest that the word Belial is used in Jewish pseudepigrapha as a reference to a particular river and its surrounding territory. I have no idea where this place might be today.

As I have said before,the spelling of Astarte and Astaroth in Biblical Hebrew are very different. Astaroth refers, oddly, to a place which was revered in the time of Sodom and appears in Genesis. Astaroth the spirit and Astarte do have things in common... both are attributed to Venus, and many of the powers ascribed to Astaroth are feminine: secrets, talents, charms and crafts. The image of Astaroth is the dragon or a black woman on a donkey; and the Ishtar gate has an image that is every bit "an infernal beast like a dragon."


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shamanwizard
post Nov 9 2007, 03:50 PM
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this is why I dom't work or talk about demons......it transforms into a conflict every time you do...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry_pissed_off_emoticon.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/butcher.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sport_boxing.gif)


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Jaguar
post Nov 27 2007, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE(orpheus @ May 17 2007, 04:06 AM) *
Hi everubody,

I've already worked with Amon and Sitry and now I'm planning to work and built a relationship with Belial. Si I'm here cause I would like to know if any of you have already worked with him. I've read that his power is far more important than the one that is told in the goetia (merley political and wealth)....
Thanks again for sharing your experiences

Orpheus
Depending on what you read.

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Grab
post Nov 27 2007, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(Jaguar @ Nov 27 2007, 07:35 PM) *
Depending on what you read.


Jaguar, what exactly do you read?


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Jaguar
post Jan 17 2008, 12:52 PM
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Some state he's a big liar and you can't trust anything he says. Not that he's dangerous. But that he spews endless lies. Others state he's just like any other spirit, Take usual precaution.

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ParadoxAngel
post Dec 14 2009, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE(Jaguar @ Jan 17 2008, 02:52 PM) *

Some state he's a big liar and you can't trust anything he says. Not that he's dangerous. But that he spews endless lies. Others state he's just like any other spirit, Take usual precaution.


Haha. He intruded on my group several times, and it took us nearly half a year to finally make him let us be. If nothing else, he's determined, a giant liar, and very, very powerful. If you're a Satanist, I can't imagine that I can caution you away from him (and I won't try, that's totally your business) but do take some care around him. He also tended to puss out at times ( I honestly think he had other things to do, and mostly bothered us because it made us very pissed at him, so I guess he's got a sense of humor, as well) and would send along either an enormous slew of underlings to taunt us all night, or another big baddie to take his place when he had elsewhere to be. (Most notably, Baal, who preferred to come harass us in the shape of a giant bull).

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ragnorok
post Jun 5 2010, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE(Jaguar @ Jan 17 2008, 02:52 PM) *

Some state he's a big liar and you can't trust anything he says. Not that he's dangerous. But that he spews endless lies. Others state he's just like any other spirit, Take usual precaution.

hahahah i take it these beings have some funny things they can tell you, if you just want to ask about the bleeps and blunders throughout history plus if he would include some exagerations and flare (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohyeah.gif)
~old thred i realize_but im just reading alot of topics at this point.

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